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Poll

Does the membership of TMM want to turn Elias loose to recruit new members?

Yes! Go for it.
- 24 (75%)
No, leave TMM as it is
- 6 (18.8%)
No. I have a better idea (details below)
- 1 (3.1%)
So THAT's where the old coot went....
- 1 (3.1%)

Total Members Voted: 29

Voting closed: March 05, 2015, 06:56:24 am


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Author Topic: Revitalizing TMM (Poll)  (Read 110178 times)

penguinsscareme

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Re: Revitalizing TMM (Poll)
« Reply #120 on: January 13, 2015, 06:18:57 pm »

Silver's and Mr. Bill's responses really resonated with me. This little community of ours has gone through a few transformations and upheavals over the years. Backwoods Home Magazine was my point of entry. I had been a reader of Dave Duffy's, Massad Ayoob's, and John Silveira's columns for a few years, and then started reading Claire's. Through her, I found out about the free state project, and upon checking it out, I knew I had to either sign up or stop complaining. So I signed up. I came here to explore deeper into this new thing I had found...and promptly got my ass kicked. It turns out, I was still very much a statist, even though at the time I didn't even know the word statist.

But I was fast friends with many of the people here, and I was a sponge for knowledge. The bridge dancing incident, the Red Button Event, the twinkie thread, the silly stuff thread, along with all the chat about current events- it was always easy to find something interesting to talk about. If anything, there was more than I could participate in.

This community, as constituted at that time, came through in the most overwhelming of ways at a time when we were on the brink of financial ruin (long story- short version: medical bills). This community literally saved my house. In the time before gofundme or kickstarter was a thing, dozens of people, many anonymously, many strangers to us, gave us so much money that in one fell swoop it got us current on all our financial obligations. It wasn't the end of lean times for us, but since that day, we never again fell behind on any bills.

But now it's been 11 years since I first came here. I was in my late twenties, renting in Massachusetts with a toddler at home. Now, in my early forties, both hardened and softened by experience and years and wear, everything has changed. Most of my favorite people here have gone on to other things in other places. The world has changed. I have changed.

Social media has happened. I understand the objections to social media, and they are totally legit. But social media is a much richer, more customizable, more fun, broader experience for me. Mr. Bill is right, this format is outdated now. If the mission of this place is to be a small community that doesn't see much turnover as the years go by, then that's fine. But if the mission is to reach new people and expose them to new ideas, or to network, frankly, social media does it better. By the way, if anyone here has a facebook account and doesn't already know me, look me up. My real name is Andrew Wiegand. I'd love to know you.

I think a couple people referenced it obliquely, but I'll say it right out. Mouse sucks. It's not just mouse, but mouse in particular really degrades the user experience.

In my experience with online discussion groups, bad participation drives out good participation. It's kind of like Gresham's law. I've seen it here, and at a couple other groups.

Can TMM recover? Honestly, I doubt it. I'm happy to be wrong about that, of course. I still poke my head in from time to time. I'll continue to do so as long as there remains at least a core of the people I stop in hoping to see.
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O Lord,
Thine Ocean is so great,
And my boat is so small.

Sportos, motorheads, dweebies, wastoids...they think he's a righteous dude.

The utter waste of our $2,000,000,000 a day military-industrial machine was never demonstrated more vividly than on 9/11.

You do what works.

Elias Alias

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Re: Revitalizing TMM (Poll)
« Reply #121 on: January 13, 2015, 08:20:56 pm »

Wow, PSM.
While it's good to see you in here, I'm wondering why you felt you should attack mouse? I thought we did not want personal attacks here. I wish you would not do that, but since you did, can you explain why you said that mouse "sucks"? Is it too many posts, in your opinion? Just curious.

Thanks,
Salute!
Elias
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penguinsscareme

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Re: Revitalizing TMM (Poll)
« Reply #122 on: January 13, 2015, 10:23:50 pm »

Mouse is emblematic of the reason why I don't participate here hardly at all anymore, and in fact a larger overall problem I have seen at this and other discussion groups. Mouse posts more than any other member ever. The only content I ever see from mouse is news feed type, sky-is-falling, simplistic, us-vs-them, bunker mentality, dichromatic, you-won't-believe-this, uninteresting, shallow, at times hyperbolic, under-researched, hasty, unreliable, poorly sourced, sensationalistic, tabloid-esque garbage. It's clickbait. Mouse is undaunted by lack of edifying discussion generated by his posts, he seems to feel that if you throw a hundred posts on the wall, one of them is bound to spark some discussion, and if not discussion, then at least attention.

The content mouse posts is worse than useless- it's disempowering, because what can be done about it? For instance: "Massachusetts law enforcement agencies claim they corporations, exempt from FOIA," is a recent post. I'm not interested in this kind of content. And, at least in General Discussion, that seems to be the de rigeur. It's not just mouse, but he is by far the worst offender, in my opinion. For all the posts he throws up, I have never felt like there was any personal connection made. And based on some of the things I see him link, I don't think I want one anyway.

And where is Joel, and Thunder and Lightning, and debeez, and coloradohermit, and the others whom I have cherished in one way or another? They're either gone or silent, or nearly so. TMM has changed, and I have changed as well, but we have not changed in similar ways or directions. To the extent that I come here at all anymore, it's to interact with the people I already have connections with who haven't transitioned over to social media.

You go back about 7 years or more and you look at the General Discussion page topics and you see a lot more actual discussion. I mean, there was always some newsfeed type content, but now and in the past few years, it has become almost given over to that. It's not fair to compare what exists now to what existed several years ago. I get that. But nevertheless, I liked it a lot better when it was a discussion forum, not a news feed. The one place I get that at all anymore is the Economics board. And that's mostly where you'll find me.

I don't think I personally attacked mouse, because I don't know mouse as a person. I think I might have known that he is from New Zealand, but I'm not even really sure I'm right about that. I'm not even sure I'm referring to him (her?) in the correct pronoun. I'm talking strictly about content. On that score, I'll stand by what I said. I know I could have said it more delicately or with more circumspection, but in the previous 8 pages of this thread there was talk of having to have a thick skin to participate here, so I took it as license.

In any case, I'll refrain from using blunt verbiage going forward. That said, I remain steadfast in my substantive observations.
Logged
O Lord,
Thine Ocean is so great,
And my boat is so small.

Sportos, motorheads, dweebies, wastoids...they think he's a righteous dude.

The utter waste of our $2,000,000,000 a day military-industrial machine was never demonstrated more vividly than on 9/11.

You do what works.

RVM45

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Re: Revitalizing TMM (Poll)
« Reply #123 on: January 14, 2015, 11:58:56 am »

Isn't Mouse a "She"?

I used to be daunted by the sheer volume of stuff on TMM and posted little because I despaired of keeping up with even a small fraction of it.

What I should have done was to focus on a couple or three sub-forums...

Now, Honestly I make a few "Drive-By" Posts just trying to spark some participation.

Not everything--just maybe 30%...

Maybe that isn't the thing to do--judging by PSM's comment, maybe that's not like a Helpful thing to like do.


.....RVM45              :mellow: :thumbsup: :mellow:
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And;

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Nothing Else Matters.

jamie

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Re: Revitalizing TMM (Poll)
« Reply #124 on: January 14, 2015, 12:26:53 pm »

Sounds like a personal problem PSM.  There is nothing wrong with what Mouse posts. Don't like it?  Don't read it.

And if you were paying attention and reading some of her personal posts you would know she lives in New Zealand.

"Kind of like Greshams law" applies to one or two other posters but not Mouse.

You have also personally attacked the one person who is least likely to reply in that extraordinarily vicious manner that some people here have.

« Last Edit: January 14, 2015, 12:46:51 pm by jamie »
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Elias Alias

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Re: Revitalizing TMM (Poll)
« Reply #125 on: January 14, 2015, 02:51:40 pm »

Mouse is emblematic of the reason why I don't participate here hardly at all anymore, and in fact a larger overall problem I have seen at this and other discussion groups. Mouse posts more than any other member ever. The only content I ever see from mouse is news feed type, sky-is-falling, simplistic, us-vs-them, bunker mentality, dichromatic, you-won't-believe-this, uninteresting, shallow, at times hyperbolic, under-researched, hasty, unreliable, poorly sourced, sensationalistic, tabloid-esque garbage. It's clickbait. Mouse is undaunted by lack of edifying discussion generated by his posts, he seems to feel that if you throw a hundred posts on the wall, one of them is bound to spark some discussion, and if not discussion, then at least attention.

The content mouse posts is worse than useless- it's disempowering, because what can be done about it? For instance: "Massachusetts law enforcement agencies claim they corporations, exempt from FOIA," is a recent post. I'm not interested in this kind of content. And, at least in General Discussion, that seems to be the de rigeur. It's not just mouse, but he is by far the worst offender, in my opinion. For all the posts he throws up, I have never felt like there was any personal connection made. And based on some of the things I see him link, I don't think I want one anyway.

And where is Joel, and Thunder and Lightning, and debeez, and coloradohermit, and the others whom I have cherished in one way or another? They're either gone or silent, or nearly so. TMM has changed, and I have changed as well, but we have not changed in similar ways or directions. To the extent that I come here at all anymore, it's to interact with the people I already have connections with who haven't transitioned over to social media.

You go back about 7 years or more and you look at the General Discussion page topics and you see a lot more actual discussion. I mean, there was always some newsfeed type content, but now and in the past few years, it has become almost given over to that. It's not fair to compare what exists now to what existed several years ago. I get that. But nevertheless, I liked it a lot better when it was a discussion forum, not a news feed. The one place I get that at all anymore is the Economics board. And that's mostly where you'll find me.

I don't think I personally attacked mouse, because I don't know mouse as a person. I think I might have known that he is from New Zealand, but I'm not even really sure I'm right about that. I'm not even sure I'm referring to him (her?) in the correct pronoun. I'm talking strictly about content. On that score, I'll stand by what I said. I know I could have said it more delicately or with more circumspection, but in the previous 8 pages of this thread there was talk of having to have a thick skin to participate here, so I took it as license.

In any case, I'll refrain from using blunt verbiage going forward. That said, I remain steadfast in my substantive observations.

Damn. Aren't you just a blessing to the whole God damned world! Thank you so much for sharing. Right after you apologize to mouse, why don't you tell me why you're even here? Since I do not appreciate crudeness, insensitivity, and people who violate their terms of service agreement regarding personal attacks, I'd like to let you know I'll not be missing you when you stop sharing your rude brilliance with we mere peons here at TMM. Thanks, but no thanks. Happy trails.

Salute!
Elias
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FDD

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Re: Revitalizing TMM (Poll)
« Reply #126 on: January 14, 2015, 03:11:15 pm »

Mouse is emblematic of the reason why I don't participate here hardly at all anymore, and in fact a larger overall problem I have seen at this and other discussion groups. Mouse posts more than any other member ever. The only content I ever see from mouse is news feed type, sky-is-falling, simplistic, us-vs-them, bunker mentality, dichromatic, you-won't-believe-this, uninteresting, shallow, at times hyperbolic, under-researched, hasty, unreliable, poorly sourced, sensationalistic, tabloid-esque garbage. It's clickbait. Mouse is undaunted by lack of edifying discussion generated by his posts, he seems to feel that if you throw a hundred posts on the wall, one of them is bound to spark some discussion, and if not discussion, then at least attention.

The content mouse posts is worse than useless- it's disempowering, because what can be done about it? For instance: "Massachusetts law enforcement agencies claim they corporations, exempt from FOIA," is a recent post. I'm not interested in this kind of content. And, at least in General Discussion, that seems to be the de rigeur. It's not just mouse, but he is by far the worst offender, in my opinion. For all the posts he throws up, I have never felt like there was any personal connection made. And based on some of the things I see him link, I don't think I want one anyway.

And where is Joel, and Thunder and Lightning, and debeez, and coloradohermit, and the others whom I have cherished in one way or another? They're either gone or silent, or nearly so. TMM has changed, and I have changed as well, but we have not changed in similar ways or directions. To the extent that I come here at all anymore, it's to interact with the people I already have connections with who haven't transitioned over to social media.

You go back about 7 years or more and you look at the General Discussion page topics and you see a lot more actual discussion. I mean, there was always some newsfeed type content, but now and in the past few years, it has become almost given over to that. It's not fair to compare what exists now to what existed several years ago. I get that. But nevertheless, I liked it a lot better when it was a discussion forum, not a news feed. The one place I get that at all anymore is the Economics board. And that's mostly where you'll find me.

I don't think I personally attacked mouse, because I don't know mouse as a person. I think I might have known that he is from New Zealand, but I'm not even really sure I'm right about that. I'm not even sure I'm referring to him (her?) in the correct pronoun. I'm talking strictly about content. On that score, I'll stand by what I said. I know I could have said it more delicately or with more circumspection, but in the previous 8 pages of this thread there was talk of having to have a thick skin to participate here, so I took it as license.

In any case, I'll refrain from using blunt verbiage going forward. That said, I remain steadfast in my substantive observations.

Damn. Aren't you just a blessing to the whole God damned world! Thank you so much for sharing. Right after you apologize to mouse, why don't you tell me why you're even here? Since I do not appreciate crudeness, insensitivity, and people who violate their terms of service agreement regarding personal attacks, I'd like to let you know I'll not be missing you when you stop sharing your rude brilliance with we mere peons here at TMM. Thanks, but no thanks. Happy trails.

Salute!
Elias

Ellias

Sir, While I do agree with some of what PSM has said, there are parts that I do not, but How does that make what you just posted any different that what he posted?

Did you not just attack him for what he said, after you asked him for his opinion?

And how does this sit with you and the 1st amendment, does he not have a right to share whats on his mind too?
Again did you not ask for opinions about this site? 
And why come down on him when others here have done far worst to others?

By your statement here, you have sent a message that we are not free to share our opinions, and therefore people do not share.

good day sir

Dawg
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That's WY

Moonbeam

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Re: Revitalizing TMM (Poll)
« Reply #127 on: January 14, 2015, 03:51:09 pm »

Wow PSMÖ Your post really triggered an absolute avalanche of thoughts for me last night! Seriously, I didnít finally drift off to sleep until sometime after 1:30 AM this morningÖ

I have long feared that my posts have contributed nothing but gibberish noise. I admit itís hard not to be paranoid as I read your post (and others for that matter) who have voiced concern about the lack of quality in this forum that they mean to include my posts in that statement. I am not digging for compliments because I have never fancied myself a teacher among such intellectuals. However, I did come here to learn.

Like you, I didnít even know what a statist was and that I was one! Claire is a mysterious woman to me though based on such glowing commentary regarding her I have formed a picture, rightly or wrongly (though respectfully) of Cate Blanchettís portrayal of Galadriel. She was very kind to me and all my newbiness. When I was trying to make sense of the whole California Prop 8 debate, Scarmig and Silver patiently endured my questions. Since they never patronized me I was able to learn something new and hereís the key, apply it. Lenny wrote some sharp insight about ZAP that imprinted my mind. I loved reading Muttiís updates about homeschooling and goats and God bless her, she did try to start a thread that was devoted to sharing encouraging and uplifting news and personal stories. I canít help but think if fine folks like those leave or post less and less, then what opportunities will be missed? I donít for a minute think they are responsible for changing the hearts and minds of others. But darn it, they changed mine!

I am truly sorry that this place has become the dust bowl I am now imagining it to be. I tried to reach out to others way more advanced than I and have fallen flat on my face. I have tried to be kind and patient under seemingly excruciating moments of testing that resolve to be so. But what the heck are you (a general you) gonna do about some personalities, and the determination of someone who might be looking for greener pastures? Nothing.

Elias is right. The Mental Militia is a brilliant name and an accurate description. It really seems to transcend many levels. He cannot exactly highjack the name Ė nor does he seem inclined to do so being the kind of gentleman he is. Mr. Bill is right about technology and the demands of people changing. Hmm, I guess I am one of those people along for the ride. At least I donít feel qualified enough to jump into the driverís seat.

I guess what Iím saying is that I am still here because I learned so much over the last five years that, even for nostalgiaís sake, I donít want to give up hope that not all is lost with this forum. I hold onto the belief that there is much more to learn. But, if everyone who once contributed greatly and tremendously to this site leave then how will folks like me be equipped for the battles Ėmental or otherwise, ahead? Sink or swim you (a general you) say? Well, I donít do Facebook, I have no interest in Instagram or Twitter or whatever is popular at the moment. I donít have the desire (or energy!) to canvas multiple sites. I put some roots down here and I while I didnít think this would be a ďforeverĒ kind of relationship, I certainly didnít expect it to turn so melancholy.

I do appreciate the contributions of so many here and wish I could reciprocate. I hope so very much that despite your (a general your) misgivings, your disappointments, and your frustrations that you (a general you) would reconsider posting here. Sure, real life comes first. There are bills to be paid, children to raise, relationships to nurture, homes to repair. Even so, setting aside some time to post some deep thinking, or even quirky posts might change the tide again. If you (a general you) feel that this forum has been highjacked by a wave of hollowness that leaves a bad taste in your mouth, then why not reclaim this place for something a little more worthy?

Please be generous with me: I wear my heart on my sleeveÖ

:)
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I'm not where I want to be, but I'm better than where I was!

Freedom is not being able to do what you want to do; freedom is being able to NOT do what you don't want to do.

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Moonbeam

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Re: Revitalizing TMM (Poll)
« Reply #128 on: January 14, 2015, 03:54:10 pm »

I don't see the personal attack either? Just a sincere, but general concern voiced?... :)
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I'm not where I want to be, but I'm better than where I was!

Freedom is not being able to do what you want to do; freedom is being able to NOT do what you don't want to do.

"We must not amuse ourselves with the notion that we have done something when we have only formed a good resolution. Power comes by doing and not by resolving." Charlotte Mason

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MamaLiberty

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Re: Revitalizing TMM (Poll)
« Reply #129 on: January 14, 2015, 03:58:29 pm »

Quote
If you (a general you) feel that this forum has been highjacked by a wave of hollowness that leaves a bad taste in your mouth, then why not reclaim this place for something a little more worthy?

This... and just don't bother to read anything you (general you) consider unworthy. We all have our own criteria for that.

Seems simple enough to me. :)
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Moonbeam

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Re: Revitalizing TMM (Poll)
« Reply #130 on: January 14, 2015, 04:01:07 pm »

Quote
If you (a general you) feel that this forum has been highjacked by a wave of hollowness that leaves a bad taste in your mouth, then why not reclaim this place for something a little more worthy?

This... and just don't bother to read anything you (general you) consider unworthy. We all have our own criteria for that.

Seems simple enough to me. :)

Yep! Hiya Mama, Happy New Year!
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I'm not where I want to be, but I'm better than where I was!

Freedom is not being able to do what you want to do; freedom is being able to NOT do what you don't want to do.

"We must not amuse ourselves with the notion that we have done something when we have only formed a good resolution. Power comes by doing and not by resolving." Charlotte Mason

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coloradohermit

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Re: Revitalizing TMM (Poll)
« Reply #131 on: January 14, 2015, 05:34:01 pm »

Hiya PSM. So glad to see you're still out there. Nice coincidence to catch you on a rare visit.
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penguinsscareme

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Re: Revitalizing TMM (Poll)
« Reply #132 on: January 14, 2015, 07:05:23 pm »

Sounds like a personal problem PSM.  There is nothing wrong with what Mouse posts. Don't like it?  Don't read it.

Well, that's just it, jamie. I don't read it. I don't find it edifying, therefore I do not read it. I almost never spend any time on General Discussion ever because I find no value in the content there anymore.

Quote
And if you were paying attention and reading some of her personal posts you would know she lives in New Zealand.

See, I thought I was right about that, but again, I don't read mouse's posts.

Elias:
Quote
Damn. Aren't you just a blessing to the whole God damned world! Thank you so much for sharing.

You asked me to explain myself. I did that. I'm sorry you don't like my explanation. All it is is my perception, no need to put any more stock in it than that. I tried to be honest and candid with you.

Quote
Right after you apologize to mouse

For saying mouse sucks? Very well, mouse, I apologize for saying that you suck. That was not classy of me.

Quote
why don't you tell me why you're even here?

I'm not sure I feel that I owe you an explanation. Nevertheless: I'm mostly not here. I come in once in a while to check out the economics board, and I usually stop in to the guns and gear board while I'm here. That's about it.

Quote
Since I do not appreciate crudeness, insensitivity, and people who violate their terms of service agreement regarding personal attacks, I'd like to let you know I'll not be missing you when you stop sharing your rude brilliance with we mere peons here at TMM. Thanks, but no thanks. Happy trails.

I'm just a bad person, I guess.

Julio:
Quote
And how does this sit with you and the 1st amendment, does he not have a right to share whats on his mind too?

It's private property. End of story.
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O Lord,
Thine Ocean is so great,
And my boat is so small.

Sportos, motorheads, dweebies, wastoids...they think he's a righteous dude.

The utter waste of our $2,000,000,000 a day military-industrial machine was never demonstrated more vividly than on 9/11.

You do what works.

slidemansailor

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Re: Revitalizing TMM (Poll)
« Reply #133 on: January 14, 2015, 07:18:22 pm »

Well HOT DANG!  We got ourselves a gen-u-ine discussion.

As part of my sheriff campaign I joined facebook, linkedin and twitter. It also connected my to my children in ways I had been missing... and, as it turns out, to a lot of people and information I would otherwise have missed.

None of them replace The Mental Militia. This place has a greater quality of community and is much more a peer group to me than any social media I have seen.

True some of the comments and posts are not valuable to me.  Gee it turns out I don't have to read every thread.  Heck, I've even exercised the ignore feature a few times.  Still, no contest in metaspace or in meatspace for the percentage of my contemporaries.  If I ever come to trial, this is the only place I can imagine trusting as a jury of my peers in a completely random selection.

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penguinsscareme

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Re: Revitalizing TMM (Poll)
« Reply #134 on: January 14, 2015, 08:14:23 pm »

Also, Elias, I want to be clear that I have no problem with you. I don't quite know what it was that I said that triggered your response, but I wasn't directing any ill will toward you.
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O Lord,
Thine Ocean is so great,
And my boat is so small.

Sportos, motorheads, dweebies, wastoids...they think he's a righteous dude.

The utter waste of our $2,000,000,000 a day military-industrial machine was never demonstrated more vividly than on 9/11.

You do what works.
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