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Author Topic: The Misunderstanding of the Rule of Law by both Citizens and the Police  (Read 28355 times)

Tahn L.

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The Confusion in Our Concept of “The Rule of Law

Basically, it is confusion between the Rule of Law and the law of rules.
 
As a sentient species, we determined early that it was wrong for one person or group to harm another, through murder, robbery, rape, pillage or theft or to harm or take another’s property, unless in self defense. This has been documented and recorded by various wise men and women since recorded history became possible and before that by our own behavior and experiences. Except for those flawed individuals we call “psychotic”, who are unable to show or feel empathy for others, we all as humans share this belief. It is reinforced every time when one of these basic wrongs happens to us or someone we love or care about.

 This belief is best summarized by the Zero Aggression Principle. “No one has the right to initiate aggression against another or to delegate or authorize its use.” Again, this has nothing to do with self defense, which is also an inherent right of all creatures, great or small, sentient or not.

If a group of diverse humans met together from all societies, they would nearly all agree on this if nothing else. Of course to some, they would apply this only to within their own group, religion or tribe and not to others but the wiser among mankind realizes that it applies to all.
 
Different societies and groups have all devised various methods and means of dealing with the violators of this law, which are peculiar within their cultures, ranging with punishments varying from shunning or imprisonment, to death and everything in between. This is the Rule of Law.

Now we come to the law of rules. There are those who believe, often with good intentions, that they can extend these laws, these things that humans agree are wrong, to their own beliefs. They want to extend these laws of “wrong doing” to others because they believe it is wrong for themselves or because they believe it would be better for others, again often (but not always) with good intentions. Sometimes it is for power or money. Regardless of their motives, they want to control others. They have even decided these rules should be judged in their severity by their arbitrary punishments as in a felony or misdemeanor, not by their harm to others. These are the law of rules and the tyrants who wish to rule us confuse us by saying that these rules, these legislative acts must be obeyed or we are no longer a nation under the rule of law. Bull pucky. They should be called “The Arbitrary Rules of Clergy and Politicians” and not confused with those righteous laws which keep all of us free from the criminal actions of others.

 Scholars call these rules “Mala Prohibita” or prohibitions enacted against some perceived ‘evil’ as compared to “Mala In Se”, that which is ‘evil’ in its self, such as those mentioned above, as in murder, rape etc. A key difference between them is that mala in se always has a distinct individual victim or victims, while mala prohibita has the ‘victim’ being the state, society, religion, even the ‘violator’  themselves or some other nebulous entity.

To list just a very few of these rules; arbitrary restrictions against alcohol or drugs, sex between consenting adults, rules of marriage,  carrying or even possessing a weapon for self defense,  not wearing a seat belt, self medication for illness, Sunday blue laws or even sodas that are too large. These are made up rules, enacted into ‘law’ by those who wish to control others, of course for their own good or the supposed good of society. They are also called victimless ‘crimes’. Of the tens of thousands of ‘laws’ here in the U.S., enforced by government, many if not most of these legislative laws are these types of rules.

If you violate one of their arbitrary rules they call you a criminal, when in fact they are the criminals, violating the basic Rule of Law by kidnapping, robbery, assault or murder. They are the evil, the mala in se, that has infested our nation. Folk who break their rules are merely outlaws, not criminals. Again they are the criminals, evil, totalitarian, tyrannical criminals.
 
The drug war alone or should I say the war against citizens has harmed millions of peaceful people, imprisoned hundreds of thousands of others, killed many and sucked billions out of the pockets of people and transferred it to the pockets of the predators. All against people who have harmed no one. It has instituted a police state in a country where one of the three basic tenants of the Declaration of Independence is the unalienable right to the pursuit of happiness. Now it means the pursuit of happiness but only if government approved and taxed happiness.  This is a classic example of mala prohibita. They have reversed the entire concept of good and evil.

When I say these rules are enforced by government I mean just that. The entire physical and ‘legal’ force of government, through threats, intimidation and violence is used to subject the people to obedience of these rules. Ignore these rules at your peril. They will take your money, your property, your freedom or even your life if you violate any one of these rules of clergy and politicians, regardless of the pettiness of the ‘crime’. This is the real tragedy, that they routinely violate the supreme Rule of Law to enforce these lesser rules.  They will kidnap you or steal your property or will kill you if you bend or break a petty rule. Even selling untaxed cigarettes for a dollar. That is one reason they are now called law enforcement officers (LEO’s) instead of Peace Officers. These are the same type of confused people who routinely rounded up the Jews and Gypsies in Nazi Germany. They were just enforcing the law, Hitler’s law of rules.

Many otherwise good and caring folk confuse these laws of rules with the Rule of Law. We think we must obey the law regardless, we must be good. This confusion, by both citizens and police, has led to the subjugation of the people by the authorities. At one time it was a King or a Pope who decreed these edicts. Now it is our own politicians, from city councils to congress.

It is imperative that we the people, all of us young and old, understand the difference between the precious and protecting Rule of Law and the oppressive law of rules. The young especially, not understanding the difference between them, rightly sense these rules are arbitrary and wrong and then proceed to throw out the baby with the bath water. They have lost respect for all laws, even those which protect each of us from others. As Thomas Jefferson said “The only legitimate reason for government is to protect the rights of every individual citizen from the equal rights of every other citizen.”  He did not say that we must control the citizens for their own good but this is what has sadly happened.

We must reverse or eliminate this increasing trend of government to control people for the good of the state or some corporation or religion or indeed, we will again end up being ruled by a king or a pope or ayatollah or a Hitler. To hell with them and their tyrannical rules of subjugation and control. Let us restore the legitimate Rule of Law and let us consign the entire concept of the law of rules into the dustbin of tyrants, where it belongs. Let us again be a nation of free people, under The Rule of Law with equal rights and freedoms for all. Then all people can again have respect for the law, their government, and each other.
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All human beings have two dogs within them. A good dog and an evil dog. The evil dog is always attacking and fighting the good dog. Which one wins?
The one you feed!
  Native American Story

Government is a meme, woven within a supporting memeplex.

Who ever frames the argument, kicks ass.

From MamaLiberty; "The Price of Liberty (is) self ownership, self control, integrity and non-aggression."

"The lust to control the lives and property of others is the root of all evil". MamaLiberty

Tahn L.

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Re: The Misunderstanding of the Rule of Law by both Citizens and the Police
« Reply #1 on: December 22, 2014, 02:52:54 pm »

There is no original thinking in my above piece, which may need some editing or improvement. Most I learned from Claire Wolfe or other members of this forum or other liberty writers. Sometimes just presenting a concept from a different perspective can be helpful. Anyone is free to add or subtract and pass on as needed.
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All human beings have two dogs within them. A good dog and an evil dog. The evil dog is always attacking and fighting the good dog. Which one wins?
The one you feed!
  Native American Story

Government is a meme, woven within a supporting memeplex.

Who ever frames the argument, kicks ass.

From MamaLiberty; "The Price of Liberty (is) self ownership, self control, integrity and non-aggression."

"The lust to control the lives and property of others is the root of all evil". MamaLiberty

RVM45

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Re: The Misunderstanding of the Rule of Law by both Citizens and the Police
« Reply #2 on: December 22, 2014, 03:19:13 pm »

When doing Wrong "Good Intentions" are never a Mitigating Factor, but instead should be considered an Extremely Aggravating Factor calling for Much Sterner Punishment.


…..RVM45         :mellow::thumbsup::mellow:
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Re: The Misunderstanding of the Rule of Law by both Citizens and the Police
« Reply #3 on: December 22, 2014, 03:36:04 pm »

There is no original thinking in my above piece, which may need some editing or improvement. Most I learned from Claire Wolfe or other members of this forum or other liberty writers. Sometimes just presenting a concept from a different perspective can be helpful. Anyone is free to add or subtract and pass on as needed.

When doing Wrong "Good Intentions" are never a Mitigating Factor, but instead should be considered an Extremely Aggravating Factor calling for Much Sterner Punishment.
…..RVM45         :mellow::thumbsup::mellow:

Seems modern nerddom is getting the picture.
Some quotes come to mind:

"Is it too late to apologize?"
"Never."
"We did it all with the best of intentions."
"I'm not here for what you intended to do.  I am here for what you did..."


"It wasn't a plague or natural disaster what killed everyone here.  The government did this, hoping to... make folk better. "
...
"So, I'm not going to kill you.  I will grant your wish.  I will show you your perfect world."


+1 to whomever recognizes the quotes.   :popcorn:
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Bill St. Clair

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Re: The Misunderstanding of the Rule of Law by both Citizens and the Police
« Reply #4 on: December 22, 2014, 04:36:57 pm »

Nicely said, Tahn. Thank you.
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"The state can only survive as long as a majority is programmed to believe that theft isn't wrong if it's called taxation or asset forfeiture or eminent domain, that assault and kidnapping isn't wrong if it's called arrest, that mass murder isn't wrong if it's called war." -- Bill St. Clair

"Separation of Earth and state!" -- Bill St. Clair

Who...me?

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Re: The Misunderstanding of the Rule of Law by both Citizens and the Police
« Reply #5 on: December 22, 2014, 05:34:06 pm »

"It wasn't a plague or natural disaster what killed everyone here.  The government did this, hoping to... make folk better. "
...
"So, I'm not going to kill you.  I will grant your wish.  I will show you your perfect world."


Two different scenes from the movie Serenity
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Tahn L.

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Re: The Misunderstanding of the Rule of Law by both Citizens and the Police
« Reply #6 on: December 24, 2014, 11:23:09 am »

Thanks Bill,

 I firmly believe that this single perspective is the most likely to sway the general populace and even those LEO's who believe they have a moral duty to enforce every single government edict that comes along. I will attempt to present the argument in as many different aspects as I can. It combines an argument against most of the evils that confront us, from gun control to drug laws and almost everything in between.  As Claire said, mala prohibita IS INDEED, mala in se.

As Who...me?, Destin Faruda and RVM45 referenced in their great quotes from Firefly, I shall also attempt to briefly review the difference between deontological ethics and consequentialism as in per "the end justifies the means". I will also touch on mens rea as it relates to modern law, although there is much already on the net and in Wikipedia concerning these concepts. But mostly I will repeat in every manner I can think of, to argue against the Arbitrary rules of the clergy and politicians.
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All human beings have two dogs within them. A good dog and an evil dog. The evil dog is always attacking and fighting the good dog. Which one wins?
The one you feed!
  Native American Story

Government is a meme, woven within a supporting memeplex.

Who ever frames the argument, kicks ass.

From MamaLiberty; "The Price of Liberty (is) self ownership, self control, integrity and non-aggression."

"The lust to control the lives and property of others is the root of all evil". MamaLiberty

MamaLiberty

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Re: The Misunderstanding of the Rule of Law by both Citizens and the Police
« Reply #7 on: December 24, 2014, 12:11:17 pm »

My thought in a nutshell:

The only legitimate laws are non-aggression and self defense. Application to specific situations requires sober consideration and agreement among honest individuals, but the principles are non negotiable.

If an individual agrees with a law, no force is required for him to obey it.  If he does not agree with it, no force but death will prevent him from disobeying it if he chooses to do so.
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Re: The Misunderstanding of the Rule of Law by both Citizens and the Police
« Reply #8 on: December 24, 2014, 12:43:56 pm »

My thought in a nutshell:

The only legitimate laws are non-aggression and self defense. Application to specific situations requires sober consideration and agreement among honest individuals, but the principles are non negotiable.

If an individual agrees with a law, no force is required for him to obey it.  If he does not agree with it, no force but death will prevent him from disobeying it if he chooses to do so.

Right.  However, without a set of rules which you agree to when you start playing a game, you aren't playing a game but having whatever the biggest bully decides to be the rules.

The problem is that our "set of rules" keeps changing.  Its as if, "no stealing, no kidnapping, no murderin' and no destroying other people's stuff" was just too damn difficult to comprehend?  "Oh, what about drugs, oh what about child rapists, oh what about protecting the weak?" you ask?  Well, the problem with the feel good crap "protect the weak" is that it allows the weak to keep getting weaker.  In fact, removing any challenge to survival means that the average moron will only drag everyone else to his level.  Removing those complete safety nets may result in short term bloodshed (all the idiots get killed being idiots, all the bastards get shot trying to be bastards when they aren't protected by law.)  In the long run, however, it will result in an improvement, both socially and genetically.

And yes, Tahn, I am one of those "young" who lost all respect for the rules.  And I'm no teenager.  Just that I saw the rules for what they were, and saw the enforcers for WHO they were.  Hard to respect a system which enforces the rule of the stupid over the intelligent, the rule of the scumbag over the virtuous, the rule of the unproductive over the productive and the rule of the unworthy over the skilled and talented.  I didn't respect it when I was barely taller than my hip.  I still don't respect it now.  But I recognized it for what it was.  A system where scumbags force the rest of us to do their bidding, to the point where even the talented work for them because there's little else left they haven't plundered.
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MamaLiberty

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Re: The Misunderstanding of the Rule of Law by both Citizens and the Police
« Reply #9 on: December 24, 2014, 01:06:22 pm »

Right.  However, without a set of rules which you agree to when you start playing a game, you aren't playing a game but having whatever the biggest bully decides to be the rules.

The only set of rules necessary are non-aggression and self defense. Individuals can agree on others based on those, but the more it expands, the more problems they'll have with it.

If some people violate the non-aggression "rule," then self defense is the recourse.  The fact that most people have not followed either one doesn't change anything.  And none of it is a "game."
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Tahn L.

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Re: The Misunderstanding of the Rule of Law by both Citizens and the Police
« Reply #10 on: December 24, 2014, 07:22:05 pm »

My thought in a nutshell:

The only legitimate laws are non-aggression and self defense. Application to specific situations requires sober consideration and agreement among honest individuals, but the principles are non negotiable.

If an individual agrees with a law, no force is required for him to obey it.  If he does not agree with it, no force but death will prevent him from disobeying it if he chooses to do so.

MamaLiberty,

 I am not sure if you are agreeing with me or not but I certainly agree with you. ALL rules of mala prohibita , enforced by violence through the state, are a violation of The Zero Aggression Principle. As I thought I stated clearly but perhaps not, mala in se (laws against true evil)  are the heart and soul of the ZAP. They are all (laws against murder, rape, theft, kidnapping etc.) an expression in the particular of the ZAP.

If you are saying that, as a society that we do not need these laws but everyone should just protect themselves, then I do not agree, as there are always the weak, the young or infirmed who cannot protect themselves. As a society of a free and civilized people I believe we should all have a duty of conscience to help them in their protection. If someone violates the ZAP, we should band together to help defend them or bring the violators to justice (whatever that justice might be), whether these laws are codified by legislative action or not.

Perhaps you are merely saying that they do not need to be codified by any type of legislative action or backed by any "authority" but are a natural law enforced only by the individual. I believe they can be agreed upon between a free, sentient and aware people . It might just be I am thinking of an agreed upon justice and you are thinking that "revenge" is sufficient, perhaps not. I do know that we both believe in the Zero Aggression Principle.
 
I most certainly agree that everyone has the right to self defense, even against enforcers of mala prohibita or the arbitrary rules of the clergy and politicians.

Again to quote Jefferson, " The only legitimate role of government is to protect the rights of every individual from the equal rights of every other individual".

I wish to restore our government to that legitimate role.
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All human beings have two dogs within them. A good dog and an evil dog. The evil dog is always attacking and fighting the good dog. Which one wins?
The one you feed!
  Native American Story

Government is a meme, woven within a supporting memeplex.

Who ever frames the argument, kicks ass.

From MamaLiberty; "The Price of Liberty (is) self ownership, self control, integrity and non-aggression."

"The lust to control the lives and property of others is the root of all evil". MamaLiberty

Tahn L.

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Re: The Misunderstanding of the Rule of Law by both Citizens and the Police
« Reply #11 on: December 24, 2014, 07:38:59 pm »

Destin Faruda,

 I concur that the "rules" have been changing. They keep adding petty rules of mala prohibita that override the Laws of mala in se. The laws against true evil (mala in se) have probably not changed in centuries (in our culture at least). They are the violations of ZAP. It is the petty rules we must throw out, to return to a civilized society where all can respect that principle.

George Potter and I had a long discussion over many brews about the definition of civilization. We concurred that it was a place where the people were "civil" to one another. Where ZAP was the highest law or principle, whether codified by government or not.
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All human beings have two dogs within them. A good dog and an evil dog. The evil dog is always attacking and fighting the good dog. Which one wins?
The one you feed!
  Native American Story

Government is a meme, woven within a supporting memeplex.

Who ever frames the argument, kicks ass.

From MamaLiberty; "The Price of Liberty (is) self ownership, self control, integrity and non-aggression."

"The lust to control the lives and property of others is the root of all evil". MamaLiberty

RVM45

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Re: The Misunderstanding of the Rule of Law by both Citizens and the Police
« Reply #12 on: December 25, 2014, 12:44:22 am »

Take a Barbarian, give him a bath, disarm him, cut off his nuts and give him a pre-frontal lobotomy…

Behold the CIVILIZED "Man".


…..RVM45            :mellow::thumbsup::mellow:
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There are only Two Types of People in the World:

A.} Folks who are after my Guns;

And;

B.} Folks who Are Not after my Guns.

Nothing Else Matters.

MamaLiberty

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Re: The Misunderstanding of the Rule of Law by both Citizens and the Police
« Reply #13 on: December 25, 2014, 06:13:09 am »

As a society of a free and civilized people I believe we should all have a duty of conscience to help them in their protection. If someone violates the ZAP, we should band together to help defend them or bring the violators to justice (whatever that justice might be), whether these laws are codified by legislative action or not.

Definitely, we should help and protect one another... but as individuals and voluntary associations. As soon as some people are given power over other people, against their will, tyranny is the inevitable result regardless of the original intentions.

Quote
Perhaps you are merely saying that they do not need to be codified by any type of legislative action or backed by any "authority" but are a natural law enforced only by the individual.

Yes. "Revenge" is never part of justice and is a violation of non-aggression. When the victim has been unable (or even unwilling) to defend themselves, that would be a time for the community to act together to seek justice, of course. How that would work would be up to the people involved, and there are many possible solutions. If, however, most people were able and willing to defend themselves and their legitimate dependents, I suspect that such victimization would be astonishingly rare.  An armed society is a polite - and safe - society.  Farming out that function to some external "authority" is why we are in the mess we're in now.

Quote
Again to quote Jefferson, " The only legitimate role of government is to protect the rights of every individual from the equal rights of every other individual".

I wish to restore our government to that legitimate role.

The preservation of life, liberty and property is the responsibility of individuals, in voluntary association with their neighbors for mutual benefit and defense. :)

There is no legitimate role for any involuntary government. And no involuntary government can be sustained in any form without theft, coercion and lies - which inevitably leads to every evil.  When did involuntary government ever actually protect the rights of individuals? You can't restore what never was. :(

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Re: The Misunderstanding of the Rule of Law by both Citizens and the Police
« Reply #14 on: December 25, 2014, 10:26:12 am »

Take a Barbarian, give him a bath, disarm him, cut off his nuts and give him a pre-frontal lobotomy…

Behold the CIVILIZED "Man".


…..RVM45            :mellow::thumbsup::mellow:

I get your sarcasm.  With that said, go see alzheimers or just typical dementia patients.  THOSE are the results of gradual shrinking of the prefrontal cortex, your "pre-frontal lobotomies," to be specific.

As for the rest, I'm not seeing if you're saying the civilized man is merely a barbarian with a new coat of paint (we agree there) or if a civilized man is somehow inferior to that which is easy for any tactically trained individual to easily overcome.  As any combat pragmatist will tell you "you fight for honor, or you fight to win, and unless you win, you get no honor to begin with, no loser ever had any honor to speak of, and the winners rewrote history."

The problem with those of us who style ourselves "good guys" is that we aren't fighting to win.  The bad guys are.  That's why they've infested every position of influence in "our" society, and by "our" I say so sarcastically, since it is "their" society, in practice.

------------------------------------------------

Yes. "Revenge" is never part of justice and is a violation of non-aggression. When the victim has been unable (or even unwilling) to defend themselves, that would be a time for the community to act together to seek justice, of course. How that would work would be up to the people involved, and there are many possible solutions. If, however, most people were able and willing to defend themselves and their legitimate dependents, I suspect that such victimization would be astonishingly rare.  An armed society is a polite - and safe - society.  Farming out that function to some external "authority" is why we are in the mess we're in now.

Okay, I have a funny feeling that we've been talking past each other about just what exactly constitutes "ZAP" and "self defense" or "justice" or "setting things right."

I'm perfectly fine with revenge.  The issue is "what constitutes revenge."  For example. 

If Bob goes out and kills Joe, for no good reason, unprovoked, then Joe's friends have every right to hunt down Bob at any time and execute him, without being afraid of likewise vengeance, since Bob is a murderer.  Just because he got away with it and caught Joe by surprise while Joe was busy working, doesn't eliminate Bob's responibility for a life taken without just cause.  Whoever kills Bob, at that point, HAS just cause.

If Bob, however, did fess up to what he did, (and convinces the rest of the suckers that it was an accident) then he gets to repay the next of kin for their loss.  In some instances, he may end up getting sold into indentured servitude with the proceeds going to Joe's next of kin.

In other words, I propose the clarification of what vengeance means, and where its logical.  We're not talking Hollywood bad guy vengeance.  "You stopped me from doing evil, now, in the sequel, my revenge is at hand!"  That isn't revenge, that is Hollywood villainy as depicted by Hollywood.

The problem is, we have a very knee jerk culture, with the average idiot knee jerking emotionally rather than investigating things.  For example, there are people I disdain, but whose purposes I approve of.  Does that mean I'd jump in to stop them because I feel emotionally closer to someone I KNOW is guilty?  NO.  That is the important part, and what I said years ago, to you, when I said I expected people were building a culture of REASON, in Wyoming.

I know now that I was UNREASONABLE to believe so.  Good neighbors means different things to different people.  To some it means you'll solve all their problems and not charge them a penny.  To some it means you'll practice your primary profession for free and find another shitty job to pay the bills.  To others it means you just mind your own business and stay out of theirs.  To yet others it means you'll jump into any lynch mob they decide to start and go flog some poor bastard who did nothing.  Therein comes the issue of "what constitutes a good neighbor."  In the end, as I once said, it comes down to reason.  I'm willing to cut off loved ones if I know they did something evil (evil as defined in logical discussion as doing unto others WITHOUT JUST CAUSE, what the one would not want done to oneself.)  I doubt so many are willing to do so, and for the same reasons.
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Understeer is when you hit the wall with the front of the car and oversteer is when you hit the wall with the rear of the car.
Horsepower is how fast you hit the wall, torque is how far you take the wall with you.
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