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Author Topic: More evidence of the stupification of America  (Read 3313 times)

RVM45

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Re: More evidence of the stupification of America
« Reply #15 on: January 15, 2015, 10:45:23 am »

EE...

Home Schooling in High School=No Wrestling=Cruel and Unusual Punishment.

Outside of that, it seems like a Good Idea in Theory.

Do they still have those Sadistic Knob-Gobbling Teachers who tell Parents:

"He's a Genius. He could make Straight "A"s if only he'd APPLY himself..."

Translation:

"Can you sweat him a little on your end?"

That's like saying that a man with an Indianapolis Racer could drive over 200 Miles Per Hour if he'd only APPLY himself.

Never mind if he has high-test fuel, high-test tires, a banked track to drive on, driving skill and some clue how to get the damned thing up to more than 170 Miles Per Hour...

As for Lectures:

My father used to give me long passionate lectures.

I never could tell exactly what point that he was trying to make.

I used to hang intently on his every word--thinking that if I could only gather enough material, I could decipher the Strange Code he spoke in.

Then at some point he'd accuse me of blanking out behind a vacant stare while thinking:

"The Old SOB is bound to run down and shut up eventually."

That used to wound me to the core, since I was trying very hard to Understand what he was saying...

Plus, once he got to Criticizing my Blank Facial Expressions the talk was running down--meaning that once again I'd Failed to apprehend his meaning.

Now Understand:

I got the General Idea and I was reasonably certain that I disagreed with where it was headed--but I was STILL Uncertain of the precise point he was aiming at.

I wish that I had a few of his old Lectures on Tape. I honestly don't remember much of them.

Quite possibly he was right in a certain sense...

Since I've went nowhere in my life...

Not that I'd change much--Certain Tactics--yes. My General value system--no.




.....RVM45           :mellow: :thumbsup: :mellow:
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MamaLiberty

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Re: More evidence of the stupification of America
« Reply #16 on: January 15, 2015, 10:49:25 am »

I think that you may both be misunderstanding my use of the word "lecture".

Yes indeed, since you didn't indicate any of those other things. :) I'd still bet that the actual "lecture" parts are ineffective  conveying anything you want them to learn. Why not concentrate on all the other stuff? :)
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DiabloLoco

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Re: More evidence of the stupification of America
« Reply #17 on: January 15, 2015, 11:00:07 am »

I think that you may both be misunderstanding my use of the word "lecture".

Yes indeed, since you didn't indicate any of those other things. :) I'd still bet that the actual "lecture" parts are ineffective  conveying anything you want them to learn. Why not concentrate on all the other stuff? :)
What other stuff? I am incorporating as many learning opportunities as I can. They can learn by hearing it spoken, while learning by actually DOING the activity. It's a good balance. I don't see anything that needs changing. :dontknow: How about I stop referring to this here as a "lecture", and I use the word "lesson" instead? I don't label it anything to the minions while I am doing it. I just recognize a teaching moment and pounce on it. As I said, they don't like it because they had already gone to school that day. They say things like, "Come on Dad! I already WENT to school today!"
« Last Edit: January 15, 2015, 11:02:40 am by DiabloLoco »
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MamaLiberty

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Re: More evidence of the stupification of America
« Reply #18 on: January 15, 2015, 11:07:48 am »

What other stuff?

Everything that isn't a lecture? LOL The questions, the hands on, the research, all of that - all good stuff. Sounds as if you are trying too hard, actually. My experience has been that if children are given opportunity to learn what interests them, pretty much at their own pace and using all kinds of tools suited to them... that you can't prevent them from learning, and enjoying it. The idea that they say it's just like being in "school" is sad.
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DiabloLoco

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Re: More evidence of the stupification of America
« Reply #19 on: January 15, 2015, 11:25:12 am »

What other stuff?

Everything that isn't a lecture? LOL The questions, the hands on, the research, all of that - all good stuff. Sounds as if you are trying too hard, actually. My experience has been that if children are given opportunity to learn what interests them, pretty much at their own pace and using all kinds of tools suited to them... that you can't prevent them from learning, and enjoying it. The idea that they say it's just like being in "school" is sad.
I respectfully disagree. If more parents with children in public schools took the time and effort to continue their children's education at home, instead of relying of the government to do it for them, the world would be a much better place. I'm not going to TRICK them into learning something. I'm straightforward about it.
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MamaLiberty

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Re: More evidence of the stupification of America
« Reply #20 on: January 15, 2015, 11:34:21 am »

I'm not going to TRICK them into learning something. I'm straightforward about it.

Good heavens! I said nothing about tricking them or not being straight forward. I think every parent should be completely responsible for the education of their children, and that government school should have zero part in that. We all have to compromise in a lot of things, and this is one area where it is often necessary... but even more important to make the best use of the time and opportunity you do have to teach them.  My only advice is to seek ways to do that teaching that doesn't involve methods they recognize and hate as being part of that government school. Actual "lecture" is just one of those things. If your children hate it, they are probably not learning anything at that point. I'm not talking about things they might not recognize as "fun," or might find inconvenient, but why do things they hate? How in the world is that productive?
« Last Edit: January 15, 2015, 11:35:59 am by MamaLiberty »
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DiabloLoco

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Re: More evidence of the stupification of America
« Reply #21 on: January 15, 2015, 11:54:10 am »

I'm not going to TRICK them into learning something. I'm straightforward about it.

Good heavens! I said nothing about tricking them or not being straight forward. I think every parent should be completely responsible for the education of their children, and that government school should have zero part in that. We all have to compromise in a lot of things, and this is one area where it is often necessary... but even more important to make the best use of the time and opportunity you do have to teach them.  My only advice is to seek ways to do that teaching that doesn't involve methods they recognize and hate as being part of that government school. Actual "lecture" is just one of those things. If your children hate it, they are probably not learning anything at that point. I'm not talking about things they might not recognize as "fun," or might find inconvenient, but why do things they hate? How in the world is that productive?
What makes it productive is the Q and A aspect of it. I include them in the lesson/lecture. I ask pointed questions to get them to think for themselves, rather than me providing the answers for them. This usually leads to them either experimenting to test their initial thoughts on the topic, or running to the computer to look something up. Both good things. The reason why they hate it, is because they know that they are learning something, rather than just playing. For those of you that have watched "Pawn Stars" (I know ML has not seen it, nor wishes to), I'm kinda like Rick Harrison. I like to share my knowledge, but the people that I'm sharing it with (Corey/Chumlee on the show) would rather just enjoy the activity without having to learn where/what/why/who/how, while doing it.
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MamaLiberty

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Re: More evidence of the stupification of America
« Reply #22 on: January 15, 2015, 12:19:59 pm »

I like to share my knowledge, but the people that I'm sharing it with (Corey/Chumlee on the show) would rather just enjoy the activity without having to learn where/what/why/who/how, while doing it.

Well, each to his own, obviously. You don't seem to see at all what I'm saying. And I don't believe your children are so dumb that they would only enjoy pointless activity rather than learning. I think you would be amazed at how much they'd enjoy being challenged and even directed if they were not so busy hating things that are like "school." I suspect your children would respond marvelously to many kinds of "unschooling" and self directed learning.

You might try asking them point blank exactly what they see as "just like school," and try to avoid it for a while. Might be eye opening. Not that they can tell you how to teach, not at all... but they have a very good idea what turns them off, I'm sure.
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Re: More evidence of the stupification of America
« Reply #23 on: January 15, 2015, 01:59:33 pm »

I did not appreciate any lectures given by a parent, a friend's parent, a teacher, a youth leader, etc. I am sure they meant well, however every time it came across as condescending. I suspect adults do it to make themselves feel better. At least that is how I felt when I used to do it with my own kids. We take a different approach now and if one of us gets to that lecture/preaching stage we gently nudge the other.

As for public school, DH and I seriously contemplated doing what DB is doing. The schools around here receive high marks for teacher and parent involvement. But, what good is that if the materials aren't rich? We also envisioned our kids coming up to us when they're a tad older and asking, "If the curriculum was so crappy, then why in the Sam Hill did you even send us there?!"

One of the benefits of homeschooling: no homework! For the most part, we're done by noon which leaves lots of opportunity for playing, crafting, exploring their ideas and questions further, reading together and just enjoying each other's company. :)

YOU GOT IT!
+1.
Real learning involves finding things out for yourself, asking questions, verifying facts and theories, "seeing things for yourself."
Classwork and homework are often nothing more than busywork meant to keep the kids busy with busywork so the parents can go work for their masters without worrying about their kids.

Government schools aren't meant for success, they're meant for raising more disposable pawns.
Quote from: DiabloLoco

link=topic=34724.msg431041#msg431041 date=1421342712
What other stuff?

Everything that isn't a lecture? LOL The questions, the hands on, the research, all of that - all good stuff. Sounds as if you are trying too hard, actually. My experience has been that if children are given opportunity to learn what interests them, pretty much at their own pace and using all kinds of tools suited to them... that you can't prevent them from learning, and enjoying it. The idea that they say it's just like being in "school" is sad.
I respectfully disagree. If more parents with children in public schools took the time and effort to continue their children's education at home, instead of relying of the government to do it for them, the world would be a much better place. I'm not going to TRICK them into learning something. I'm straightforward about it.

+1.  Especially on parental involvement.  The reason teaching is so crappy, so often, is because students aren't challenged, they're warehoused and forced into menial labor of the uninteresting, unchallenging kind until such time as their parents can come home from their own menial, uninteresting, unchallenging kinds of EMPLOYMENT.  Then again, schools are the precursors to imprisonment and employment and therefore have elements of both.
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StillaGhost

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Re: More evidence of the stupification of America
« Reply #24 on: January 15, 2015, 05:18:11 pm »

[quote author=DiabloLoco link=topic=34724.msg431041#msg431041  If more parents with children in public schools took the time and effort to continue their children's education at home, instead of relying of the government to do it for them,
[/quote]
 
 
   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^This ( see above) , along with the commentary as regards the emphasis on producing malleable ,somnambulant worker drones.
 
  The alleged 'educational system' has become an indoctrinational system.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2015, 05:22:26 pm by StillaGhost »
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