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Author Topic: Oath Keepers Website Down?  (Read 50735 times)

Elias Alias

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Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
« Reply #45 on: May 08, 2016, 01:13:17 am »

Yep. I am a bit stunned too. This is not good for Oath Keepers, and I would prefer that this not go any further, because in my view, Oath Keepers is a very valuable idea for the liberty movement as a whole, and this sort of thing could hurt an organization that is peopled by many good women and men, all of whom will feel the hurt of this. I know a lot of good people who are doing the lion's share of strong work under the Oath Keepers banner, many of whom will be embarrassed by the association once this gets out. I really don't want any part in letting the story out to the public -- want no part in that. So I am saddened that it showed up here at TMM's forums, but I can't rightly delete it, for it's true, and that is not my doing. It' just not a fitting portrait for a man who made the Oath a weapon for freedom. I am very sad for him, and for what this will do to his organization.

Salute!
Elias
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Jake

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Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
« Reply #46 on: May 08, 2016, 01:17:39 am »

agreed and ditto
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Elias Alias

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Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
« Reply #47 on: May 08, 2016, 02:43:16 am »

You know, Jake, I'm thinking about this more deeply, and it occurs to me that it's entirely possible that the movement to teach people about the Oath will go forward anyway. I think Stewart has got that ball rolling. Eight years ago we hardly ever heard any politician talk about the Oath, but nowadays in any election cycle we notice that all candidates, when asked about it, declare (whether deceptively or honestly) that they will honor their Oath. Like, it's part of the national political dialogue now, and Stewart gets credit for that in my book. But however anyone feels about that, the truth is the movement, carried forward by thousands of good patriots, will continue to have an effect on politicians, police, and military. How can I know that? Simple. The many thousands who've recognized the genius in the very idea of educating about the Oath will not give up that tool just because of a misjudgment by the guy who brought it to the table. I know I won't. I've seen the power in that vision, and will not put down the tool that has been passed to me. I think many others will feel the same way.

Salute!
Elias
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jamie

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Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
« Reply #48 on: May 08, 2016, 03:09:26 am »

I have been around long enough to understand that not all is as it seems.  There might be a reason, a supportable reason, for the disbarment.
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Bill St. Clair

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Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
« Reply #49 on: May 08, 2016, 05:28:27 am »

Though that disbarment notice LOOKS real, it's not hard to imagine forging it and uploading to Scribd, so I went to Ed Smith's web site and searched for Rhodes. Confirmed. I suppose that site could have been hacked, but it seems highly doubtful to me.

https://supremecourtdocket.mt.gov/search/case?case=17398
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"The state can only survive as long as a majority is programmed to believe that theft isn't wrong if it's called taxation or asset forfeiture or eminent domain, that assault and kidnapping isn't wrong if it's called arrest, that mass murder isn't wrong if it's called war." -- Bill St. Clair

"Separation of Earth and state!" -- Bill St. Clair

Bill St. Clair

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Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
« Reply #50 on: May 08, 2016, 05:32:44 am »

The other thing I don't know is whether the "Elmer S. Rhodes" mentioned in the disbarment is the same Stewart Rhodes who founded Oath Keepers.
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"The state can only survive as long as a majority is programmed to believe that theft isn't wrong if it's called taxation or asset forfeiture or eminent domain, that assault and kidnapping isn't wrong if it's called arrest, that mass murder isn't wrong if it's called war." -- Bill St. Clair

"Separation of Earth and state!" -- Bill St. Clair

Bill St. Clair

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Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
« Reply #51 on: May 08, 2016, 06:58:11 am »

It looks like the oathkeepers.org bits are still there (or were restored from backup). Latest post: May 3, 2016.

I found it by adding to my /etc/hosts file (google "/etc/hosts windows" for the Windows location of that file):

Code: [Select]
209.188.24.130 oathkeepers.org www.oathkeepers.org
Then going to https://www.oathkeepers.org/

I found that IP address at http://viewdns.info/iphistory/?domain=oathkeepers.org
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"The state can only survive as long as a majority is programmed to believe that theft isn't wrong if it's called taxation or asset forfeiture or eminent domain, that assault and kidnapping isn't wrong if it's called arrest, that mass murder isn't wrong if it's called war." -- Bill St. Clair

"Separation of Earth and state!" -- Bill St. Clair

SamCarter

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Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
« Reply #52 on: May 08, 2016, 07:43:19 am »

Over the last several days the site has been down then up then down then up and finally down again for the last three days.  One impression I have had for awhile is that Stewart and others are preferring to communicate via Facebook rather than the OK forum, the thought being is that it reached more people.  It was disappointing to me that the Oathkeepers own forum wouldn't be preferable to other social media. I hope I'm wrong but I wouldn't be surprised if they let the forum go permanently.

As far as Stewarts disbarment, it has been discussed on the forum.  The reason was a charge that he failed to properly represent a client.  I'm sorry I don't remember if that part was explained, but I do know that Stewart had become increasingly unhappy with the BAR and intended to resign anyway, so when these charges came up he just chose to not respond.  It seemed that this explanation seemed to satisfy most people, so please don't judge Stewart's actions until the site is back up and you can read that whole thread.
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WAKING ENIGMA

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Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
« Reply #53 on: May 08, 2016, 08:53:53 am »

Yep. I am a bit stunned too. This is not good for Oath Keepers, and I would prefer that this not go any further, because in my view, Oath Keepers is a very valuable idea for the liberty movement as a whole, and this sort of thing could hurt an organization that is peopled by many good women and men, all of whom will feel the hurt of this. I know a lot of good people who are doing the lion's share of strong work under the Oath Keepers banner, many of whom will be embarrassed by the association once this gets out. I really don't want any part in letting the story out to the public -- want no part in that. So I am saddened that it showed up here at TMM's forums, but I can't rightly delete it, for it's true, and that is not my doing. It' just not a fitting portrait for a man who made the Oath a weapon for freedom. I am very sad for him, and for what this will do to his organization.

Salute!
Elias

Elias, this is already out in the public. 

Obviously, Been There has a bone to pick and chose TMM
for his agenda driven 'spread the hate' BASHING.

It was discussed on the OK forum in
mid-November of 2015 where Stewart posted
his side of the story and it was largely put to rest.
It had a ripple effect, at the time, with some members
and leadership leaving.  Fortunately, there are more
members that can discern the dire importance of the Mission
and keep the man separate.  Principles before personality.

I have his posted response, in full, in my files and can post it here
or email it to you, at your discretion.

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~WE

Jake

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Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
« Reply #54 on: May 08, 2016, 09:03:08 am »

You know, Jake, I'm thinking about this more deeply, and it occurs to me that it's entirely possible that the movement to teach people about the Oath will go forward anyway. I think Stewart has got that ball rolling. Eight years ago we hardly ever heard any politician talk about the Oath, but nowadays in any election cycle we notice that all candidates, when asked about it, declare (whether deceptively or honestly) that they will honor their Oath. Like, it's part of the national political dialogue now, and Stewart gets credit for that in my book. But however anyone feels about that, the truth is the movement, carried forward by thousands of good patriots, will continue to have an effect on politicians, police, and military. How can I know that? Simple. The many thousands who've recognized the genius in the very idea of educating about the Oath will not give up that tool just because of a misjudgment by the guy who brought it to the table. I know I won't. I've seen the power in that vision, and will not put down the tool that has been passed to me. I think many others will feel the same way.

Salute!
Elias
I understand Elias.  It just became a little vacuum for a while.  Sucked the air out out of the room so to speak.  This morning, I realized that it was only the jell that held together individuals that shall continue because of their chemistry.  Come to think about it, the jell is still there as with common logic and it is just the watering hole that got smacked.

I found the Oath Keepers just this last January.  Up until that point we were doing our own thing in prep and had been doing so since the late 1990's.  The writings of Rosenburg, Rawles, and others confirmed our doings as just.  But when finding the Keepers, it was very rewarding in the insightful collective words of so many others and knowing that there was others was blissful. 

The the key was the "Oath".  I took three, selective service, navy, and small town police (although only a reservist).  The first was like any in the Boy Scouts.  The second was thought inspiring.  The third was laminating in a just way.

My membership number at OK was over 33k and that was as rewarding as finding the Keepers.  Each one of us come from different backgrounds and that diversity strengthens our efforts.  No one individual has all the answers.

Being here at TMM is as rewarding.
« Last Edit: May 08, 2016, 09:13:04 am by Jake »
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Klapton Isgod

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Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
« Reply #55 on: May 08, 2016, 03:15:09 pm »

I read Stewart's explanation of the "disbarment" hullabaloo.  I forget the precise details, but basically he got on some other lawyer's poop list for not being a good little cog in their machine, so they did some lawyer BS, sending stuff to him demanding he show up for whatever while he was in the middle of a family crisis (mother in law passing or something similar).

He blew off their threats, knowing that they would do more lawyer paper stuff, and not giving a shit.  The way he put it, it's like they wanted him to show up so they could scold him in person, and he didn't give them the satisfaction.

Anyway...  It was no mistake.  It was NOT negligence.  He did it on purpose.

As for this website stuff...  No idea.  I wouldn't be terribly surprised if the domain was allowed to expire.  That sort of thing happens when nearly EVERYONE is a volunteer, running the thing in their free time (which no one has).

.

.
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BeenThere

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Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
« Reply #56 on: May 08, 2016, 03:39:58 pm »

This is not good for Oath Keepers, and I would prefer that this not go any further,

Elias, this is already out in the public. 

Obviously, Been There has a bone to pick and chose TMM
for his agenda driven 'spread the hate' BASHING.

It was discussed on the OK forum in
mid-November of 2015 where Stewart posted
his side of the story and it was largely put to rest.
It had a ripple effect, at the time, with some members
and leadership leaving.  Fortunately, there are more
members that can discern the dire importance of the Mission
and keep the man separate.  Principles before personality.

I have his posted response, in full, in my files and can post it here
or email it to you, at your discretion.



Elias Alias, what one prefers be done can be contrary to what should be done.  It is in the best interest of OK that every member, and potential member, know this.  Without full disclosure, it will be used by those who want to discredit OK at a time of their choosing. You don't want to worry about how or when that will happen. You want to be the one to decide how and when. You don't want it to look like there is a cover up.

Waking Enigma, I got no bone to pick.  I was considering joining OK.  But, I don't join any organization without fully vetting the leadership and key members.  I do the homework.  It's called due diligence.  It didn't take long to find out about Rhodes.  That is why the lack of knowledge about him is surprising - if I can find this information, you can be sure your detractors can.  Is it good for the membership to know less about their leader than his enemies?  There lies the road to ruin.  Speaking the truth is not 'spreading the hate bashing.'

If it was discussed in a forum during November 2015, that was before the disbarment.  I for one would like to see Rhodes' explanation.  Right now, the facts seem to bear that Rhodes did a number of things that a lawyer just does not do - he misrepresented himself before a federal court, he mislead and then abandoned clients without notice to them and the court, he ignored orders to respond to the complaints, and he blew off a court order to appear.  Again, you just don't do that if you still want a career in law.  Of course, if you have another source of income (like some organization you "lead") then maybe you don't care.  But that's not the point.  He had obligations to others, and he shrugged them off.  As a man, that is something you just don't do.

You are both right, the mission is what is important.  However, you cannot keep the mission and the man separate when the man threatens the success of the mission.  Especially when the personality has no principles, as has been amply demonstrated.  For bringing dishonor upon Oathkeepers, the only honorable thing for Rhodes to do would be to resign and remove himself from anything to do with Oathkeepers.
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BeenThere

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Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
« Reply #57 on: May 08, 2016, 03:58:33 pm »

I read Stewart's explanation of the "disbarment" hullabaloo.  I forget the precise details, but basically he got on some other lawyer's poop list for not being a good little cog in their machine, so they did some lawyer BS, sending stuff to him demanding he show up for whatever while he was in the middle of a family crisis (mother in law passing or something similar).

He blew off their threats, knowing that they would do more lawyer paper stuff, and not giving a shit.  The way he put it, it's like they wanted him to show up so they could scold him in person, and he didn't give them the satisfaction.

Anyway...  It was no mistake.  It was NOT negligence.  He did it on purpose.

As for this website stuff...  No idea.  I wouldn't be terribly surprised if the domain was allowed to expire.  That sort of thing happens when nearly EVERYONE is a volunteer, running the thing in their free time (which no one has).

.

.

If you would, please post Rhodes' explanation.  Right now, it seems like it is just part of a deeper hole he has been digging.

If, as you said, "It was no mistake.  It was NOT negligence.  He did it on purpose" that is truly troubling.  If he blew off his clients on purpose, leaving them hanging during a case, on purpose, then he is nobody I would follow, nor even want to be associated with in any way.  Choosing to not defend yourself against accusations suggests that you either don't care about the impact to your reputation, or that you acknowledge the truth of those accusations.  This is not just about being "scolded in person," this is about being an honorable man by answering and confronting your accusers with evidence to prove them wrong.  Letting yourself be drummed out of your chosen profession is not a wise thing to do if you can fight it.  He chose not to fight it; he chose to quit.  He has shown he will quit when faced with adversity. He is a quitter.  Should you trust the mission of Oathkeepers to a quitter?
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Bill St. Clair

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Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
« Reply #58 on: May 08, 2016, 04:14:04 pm »

He has shown he will quit when faced with adversity. He is a quitter.  Should you trust the mission of Oathkeepers to a quitter?

I don't know Stewart, except from his long-ago thoughtful posts on these forums as "Stewart the Yalie". I have no idea what he was going through or why he chose to do what he did. It appears that neither do you. Bad relationships with government doesn't degrade anybody in my mind. More of a badge of honor.
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"The state can only survive as long as a majority is programmed to believe that theft isn't wrong if it's called taxation or asset forfeiture or eminent domain, that assault and kidnapping isn't wrong if it's called arrest, that mass murder isn't wrong if it's called war." -- Bill St. Clair

"Separation of Earth and state!" -- Bill St. Clair

DiabloLoco

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Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
« Reply #59 on: May 08, 2016, 04:26:48 pm »


  Should you trust the mission of Oathkeepers to a quitter?
I am not an Oath Keeper. Thankfully, I have never been a part of an organization that required the Oath to be taken. I will however, chime in to say that nobody asked you to join OKers. Nobody asked you to follow Rhodes. Nobody asked you to be the judge of whether or not OTHERS should follow Rhodes. You are free to do as you please. What you seem to be implying though, is a coup. écraser légèrement, mon amie. Judging by your posts so far, you are sending up red flags. You seem to be a government "agent provocateur". Or at the very least, a misguided SJW. :ph34r:

There are many that have been affected by following the wrong guy. Just ask Destin! He'll let you know how he really feels about Boston T. Party. :laugh: So, Is Rhodes the wrong guy to follow? I have no idea. You, along with everybody else that seeks to sign on with OKers, must make that decision for yourself.

Personally, I follow no one. I am a "maverick". I think for myself. I do not need, nor want, a "leader". Perhaps, you are the same. Well....... that is, assuming your intentions are pure, and you are not a POS agent provocateur. :ph34r:
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