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Author Topic: Lawful order?  (Read 210 times)

Kurt

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Lawful order?
« on: July 12, 2016, 09:46:56 am »

For consideration:

Quote
Dallas Police Department General Order

906.02 Use of Deadly Force Policy

A. Justification for the Use of Deadly Force -In all situations, justification for the use of deadly force must be limited to
the facts reasonably apparent to the officer at the time the officer decides to use the force.

B. Definitions
1. Reasonably Perceive - The facts or circumstances the employee knows, or should know, that would cause an
ordinary and prudent peace officer to act or think in a similar way under similar circumstances.
2. Reasonable Alternative - An action that may be taken by the officer that may allow the officer to avoid the use of
deadly force.
3. Reasonable Belief - A belief that would be held by an ordinary and prudent person in the same circumstances
as the actor.
4. Serious Bodily Injury - Bodily injury that creates a substantial risk of death, serious permanent disfigurement, or
protracted loss of impairment of the function of any bodily member or organ.

C. Avoiding the Use of Deadly Force
1. At the point when an officer should reasonably perceive the potential exists that deadly force may be an
outcome of any situation, the officer must use reasonable alternatives if time and opportunities permit. The
reasonableness of the action is based upon the time available, the opportunity of performing the action, and the
facts apparent to the officer prior to and during the incident.
2. Planned and supervised hazardous entry situations are recognized as meeting the requirements of reasonable
alternatives above.
3. Officers will not fire their weapons under conditions that would unnecessarily subject bystanders or hostages to
death or possible injury except to preserve life or to prevent serious bodily injury.

D. Authorization to Use Deadly Force -Officers will only use deadly force to protect themselves or another person from
imminent death or serious bodily injury.

Did the DPD exhaust all reasonable alternatives?  Certainly time allowed for other methods, as they had time to design, construct, and deliver C4PO to the suspected murderer.  Does a standoff with a wounded gunman on the second floor of a parking garage surrounded by a major metropolitan police force constitute a reasonable risk of imminent death or serious bodily injury to the police outside?

Was the order from the Dallas Chief of Police to kill the suspect a lawful order, or just one his officers were happy to follow?
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Bill St. Clair

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Re: Lawful order?
« Reply #1 on: July 12, 2016, 10:41:58 am »

Was order from the Dallas Chief of Police to kill the suspect a lawful order, or just one his officers were happy to follow?

Seems to me that they were just in a hurry. And he killed a cop. I'll bet they would have been more happy to wait had it just been mundanes in the morgue.
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"The state can only survive as long as a majority is programmed to believe that theft isn't wrong if it's called taxation or asset forfeiture or eminent domain, that assault and kidnapping isn't wrong if it's called arrest, that mass murder isn't wrong if it's called war." -- Bill St. Clair

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Jake

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Re: Lawful order?
« Reply #2 on: July 12, 2016, 11:19:20 am »

Was the order from the Dallas Chief of Police to kill the suspect a lawful order, or just one his officers were happy to follow?
I believe that a wounded man has less time than those that await him to die or surrender.  I believe that the choice to take him out was rushed.  He would have surrendered to his wounds or the police.  Either way some intel would have been acquired.
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Kurt

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Re: Lawful order?
« Reply #3 on: July 12, 2016, 01:46:14 pm »

Thanks, but wondering if the OK leadership had released any statements on this yet, been having trouble accessing their website. 

Ex-squid here, wouldn't have had any qualms about following this order to kill a suspected enemy combatant.  Hoped to find out the OK stance on it for LEOs against US (ex-mil in fact) citizens. 

As I understand it, the plan was approved by the mayor, ordered by the chief, then passed down the chain of command.  Must have been at least a couple senior police watching the operator maneuver the EOD robot via the video link, other cops on the street watching it roll past at 1-2 MPH and up the ramp into the parking structure.  The OK leadership have an official position/statement on this, or waiting to release something after the services for the fallen officers maybe? 
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