Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[gunslinger598]

I know it's all over survival & prepping sites. Lately I've been reading what seem to be informative articles about using these.

Anyone actually using or has used them? Any precautions?

[MamaLiberty]

I've written about this subject substantially a number of times here, so I'll just summarize.

Antibiotics can be life savers, absolutely, but their safe use depends on knowing the infective organism (they are worse than worthless against any virus) and not just any antibiotic will kill any particular bacteria... so for the most safe and effective use, a laboratory is required to match the germ with the medication. Much of the "superbug" problem, resistant bacteria, is the result of skipping this necessary step, irresponsible and casual use of the most powerful antibiotics for ordinary infections, and failure of patients to take the medication for the full course.  Consequently, there are an increasing number of bacteria no longer responding and are more life threatening than ever.

Oral antibiotics are not nearly as effective as those given IV, so it is important not to expect one to replace the other. And no, it is not a good idea to accumulate IV equipment and supplies for post SHTF use because you will not have a sterile environment to make or mix the solutions, and they do not have a long shelf life even in powder form. IV medication requires professional evaluation and observation because side effects can be serious and even deadly, very quickly. An epi-pen isn't going to cut it.

In addition, many antibiotics are made with fluoride.  http://www.nccn.net/~wwithin/fluoride.htm

Index of Fluorinated Pharmaceuticals
"fluorinated antibiotics Floxin, Levaquin, and Cipro can cause nightmares, psychotic reactions, paranoia, agitation, manic reactions, aggression and hostility, hallucinations, and even depersonalization, all symptoms associated with acts of homicide and suicide."

"In 1990, about 220 fluorinated pharmaceutical drugs were on the market. Now some 1,500 are under development."

Many Antibiotics, Anesthetics (general), Anti-fungal antibiotics, Appetite suppressants, Antacids, Antihistamines, Arthritis (rheumatoid), Anti-anxiety, Antilipemics (cholesterol lowering), Psychotropic (anti-psychotic), Antibiotics (Fluoroquinolones), Anti-malarial, Steroids/anti-inflammatory agents, Antidepressants, Antimetabolites (chemotherapy).

Antibiotics will assist a good immune system, but it will not be much help for someone with a very poor one. Keeping your immune system healthy would, then, seem like a logical priority in any case. Optimal nutrition, hygiene, avoiding obvious sources of infection where possible, and adequate rest is essential. No antibiotic can replace any of those things.

So, do your homework, know what you are getting and how to use it.  And pray you never need to even consider it.

[gunslinger598]

I  figured there was something here. I went back a few pages, probably should have used the search.

I  have a pretty good supply of  stuff on hand for the horses. Over the years we have had to do  quite a bit of  stuff. I figured some could be used in an emergency if it became necessary. Was never looking forward to taking or giving a shot of penicillin with a 18x1.5.  So the fish anti biotics sounded like a good alternative.

[MamaLiberty]

I  figured there was something here. I went back a few pages, probably should have used the search.

I  have a pretty good supply of  stuff on hand for the horses. Over the years we have had to do  quite a bit of  stuff. I figured some could be used in an emergency if it became necessary. Was never looking forward to taking or giving a shot of penicillin with a 18x1.5.  So the fish anti biotics sounded like a good alternative.

How would you determine it was "necessary?"

Funny thing is that I had horses, cattle, goats, all sorts of other animals 45 years ago... and I never used any sort of antibiotic. I also didn't lose any livestock to sickness. We vaccinated the dogs for rabies and distemper (required for show and hunting in certain areas), and regularly tested milk animals for TB and brucellosis, but never had a serious infection even with cuts and scrapes common to livestock. Their immune systems respond to the same things as humans... nutrition, cleanliness, good environment and freedom from serious stress.

Then I watched antibiotics become common and widely used... and animals all over the country seemed to get sick a lot more often...  Watched the same thing happen with people, especially children. Some folks have a permanent bottle of Amoxicillin in the refrigerator, and the child has a more or less permanent ear infection.  Wonder what's up with that?

I had an anti-biotic just once in my life... was given PCN for bronchitis as a teen. Almost killed me - violently allergic - so I never had any more of any kind - even refused ABT pre-op when I had abdominal surgery. I don't have infections and have not for most of my life. I don't "catch colds" and I've never had the flu. EVER.   

...food for thought. 

[gunslinger598]

I  guess in an emergency  situation where medical service isn't available ya sometimes may  just  have to  use your best judgment.

I've had so  many horses that sooner or later something is bound to go  wrong that requires a little more attention. I'd say the most common thing is an infected cut, usually from wire. An occasional snake bite. (snakes have a dirty mouth) Keeping in mind I had a working relationship with several local veterinarians. In some states I can do some surgeries on my own animals yet can not  on others owned by someone else without a valid license. Most generally that included castrating colts, cattle's & hogs. I've had to  sew up a few that were torn up in wire pretty bad. Generally though those heal good with just daily water & cleansing therapy.

I agree that to many times to many people including some vets over use anti biotics. There are several bugs under the tongue that just need to run their course. When allowed to do so the horse generally is immune from that point on. I've witnessed cases where owners intervened & the secondary infection was worse.

To keep the record straight here I'm not talking about self medicating just because I can. As a last resort. I'm not sure I'm tough enough to  cut off my own arm or leg as we hear stories about. But I would like to be able to have a few things available if  I  ever reach that  critical of a situation.

[DiabloLoco]

I too have been considering getting the fish antibiotics. I know when I need antibiotics. Most often when I do need them, I go to the doctor and tell them exactly what is wrong with me, what antibiotic I need, dosage, and duration. Of course they want to go through the motions anyways with the diagnosis, but I have never been wrong. The doctor has always agreed with my diagnosis and medication recommendation. I will continue to do this while I can, but I would like the fish stuff in my preps though, for if/when there is no doctor/medication available. They would be worth many times their weight in gold for barter in such a situation as well. From what I have read, they are exactly the same as the pills given to humans.

[scorpio]

I think most people think of fish antibiotics as a last resort. Don't get me wrong they are the same ones the doctor would prescribe under the right reason (the ones I have seen), but I wouldn't take them unless I had too. In a shtf you would have no choice. Wouldn't know how much to give to an animal. If it was life or death for my horse, hell ya I would try it. Also many are penicillin based, so be careful.

[gunslinger598]

The following article states under federal law the drugs are required to be labeled in specific ways to be identified. That being said the fish anti biotics described in the article are in fact labled the same and are the same.

http://www.truthistreason.net/guide-to-veterinary-drugs-for-human-consumption-post-shtf

Yes, that might sound more dangerous than buying pills from a Mexican street corner, but I assure you, it is not.  USP-approved animal pharmaceuticals are often made in the same manufacturing plants as human pharmaceuticals and will contain the same ingredients.  They are the same color, shape, and bare the same markings as human drugs.  This likely boils down to cost-effectiveness for Big Pharma, but for once, is also in your interest and favor.
 
Allow me to explain.  Every “drug” manufactured, sold, or brought into the United States must pass FDA regulations (don’t get me started on the FDA), and is listed within the United States Pharmacopeia, or USP.  This is a compendium recognized officially by the Federal Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act that contains descriptions, uses, strengths, and standards of purity for selected drugs and for all of their forms of dosage.

SNIP

[MamaLiberty]

The following article states under federal law the drugs are required to be labeled in specific ways to be identified. That being said the fish anti biotics described in the article are in fact labled the same and are the same.

Yes, but it's quite beside the point. You would not have the laboratory to verify the nature of the infectious agent, nor its sensitivity to the antibiotic, which is the only rational way to use them. Without that, you are shooting blind and taking chances with serious side effects and immunity problems down the line.  And fish/animal medications are not labeled with dosing guidelines for humans, which would be a serious problem unless you actually know how to calculate it... and good luck with that. Even in a hospital, that can be a crap shoot. They don't really KNOW because each individual has a unique response to any medication, and there is no way to predict more than "averages." All medication dosing is more or less an "educated guess" at best.

As a medical professional, I saw a lot of problems with ABT;  side effects, etc. even when these medications were used properly and with the lab results, pharmacy calculations all done correctly.  Just seems to me that there are too many, far better things to do to treat infections or, better, to prevent them.

You will, of course, do what you think best. I just answered your question.

[fred.greek]

If I read the document at the link correctly, it would seem that fish antibiotics, a popular aspect of “prepper” lore, will as of this coming January require all to go to a veterinarian and get a prescription to make a purchase.

http://www.fda.gov/animalveterinary/developmentapprovalprocess/ucm482106.htm


Pre-new law, do you know anyone who could make a recommendation of product and dose to “stock up”, assuming four mature fish in our tank?

A sample source:
https://www.jefferspet.com/categories/meds-vaccines/by-animal/fish-1


The lady at the youtube link appears to argue the new regulation has the potential to dramatically impact farmers, even cattle owners, if they have to get individual prescriptions to treat each animal. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GkPl0SZdb1A&feature=youtu.be

[securitysix]

If I read the document at the link correctly, it would seem that fish antibiotics, a popular aspect of “prepper” lore, will as of this coming January require all to go to a veterinarian and get a prescription to make a purchase.

http://www.fda.gov/animalveterinary/developmentapprovalprocess/ucm482106.htm


Pre-new law, do you know anyone who could make a recommendation of product and dose to “stock up”, assuming four mature fish in our tank?

A sample source:
https://www.jefferspet.com/categories/meds-vaccines/by-animal/fish-1


The lady at the youtube link appears to argue the new regulation has the potential to dramatically impact farmers, even cattle owners, if they have to get individual prescriptions to treat each animal. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GkPl0SZdb1A&feature=youtu.be

As for where to purchase, I've had good results from this place.

As for what to purchase, you would have to consult your vet regarding the fish you have and the composition of your tank.