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Author Topic: ID Resist  (Read 138056 times)

RagnarDanneskjold

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ID Resist
« Reply #105 on: June 01, 2005, 12:43:09 am »

Here is a site called no2id
Looks like a Brit site since they use the word spanner for wrench
Quote
Thousands of our supporters have pledged to resist the introduction of the national ID scheme.

Now we need to know exactly HOW you want to take action.

We intend proving that the government can never win this battle, so we've launched a competition to find the most innovative and powerful ways to (legally) throw spanners into the works. Get furtive and join us here for the fun.
« Last Edit: June 01, 2005, 12:44:47 am by RagnarDanneskjold »
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remnantfarm

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ID Resist
« Reply #106 on: June 02, 2005, 03:30:08 pm »

This is my first post, and I'm pretty computer-disabled, but won't the whole "getting around the strips and stuff" be pretty useless?  I mean, one of the major reasons they want this is to completely track you, so every transaction will eventually be NID required, and every time, your NID MUST go through?

I think our best defense/offense will be to create some sort of Freedom Network of people willing to do the jobs without ID.  There have to be doctors, dentists, bankers, etc. that hate this, right?  Especially with all of terrible laws against them and the hoops they have to jump to be "certified".

We'll be moving the family to MT next year, as our research showed that state to be one of the more "anti-fed".  I would love to find local Dr.s, bankers, etc. to work with that don't require me to name my mother's, aunt's first cousin once removed's, son's, grandmother's maiden name and serial rank to sign up!

Other info on Sensenbrenner, et al:
all info on wife, children, extended family (you know they're going to do the same to us!)
all other owned property
possible friend links (especially if they're also ID Happy)
offshore links (accounts, homes, etc)

I would love to see everything down to his library books and "private" purchases!  The gov't will have access to ours from the credit cards (another thing I am almost weaned off of).  Ahhh, the thought of seeing purchases for gov't taboo items splashed all over the internet.

Anyway, that's my not worth two cents.

Amber
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UnstructuredAgain

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ID Resist
« Reply #107 on: June 02, 2005, 05:42:07 pm »

So many people are so trapped within the control grid (system) they won't abandon their ID's.  The goal to me is to get as many people out of the system as possible and rally to change the tyranny.  A snitch culture will emerge as the sheep see others who haven't submitted, so be careful out there.  Within gulches, private communities, etc.  that's just fine.  Step outside of that world and you'll see the new Stasi in action, but we'll find ways around it indeed.

Peace and Good Day
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Mr. Bill

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ID Resist
« Reply #108 on: June 02, 2005, 11:24:09 pm »

FYI, I just rewrote most of the Wikipedia article on the Real ID Act.

The hard part was logging arguments in favor of the thing! Gotta be neutral, or at least balanced, for Wikipedia.
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UnstructuredAgain

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ID Resist
« Reply #109 on: June 02, 2005, 11:38:57 pm »

In favor?  No, I understand.  But at least tinge it with a bit of the negative :)  .
from wikipedia:
"National ID controversy

There is disagreement about whether the Real ID Act institutes a "national identification card" system. Some argue that the new law only sets forth national standards, but leaves the issuance of cards and the maintenance of databases in state hands; therefore, it is not a true "national ID" system, and may even forestall the arrival of national ID.

Others argue that this is a trivial distinction, and that the new cards are de facto national ID cards, thanks to the uniform national standards and (especially) the linked databases.

Arguments for and against identity cards are covered in detail under identity document.

Also, many have pointed out that the 9/11 terrorists all had proper identification.

Additionally, some say that it is unwise to restrict illegal immigrants from obtaining driver's licenses, as this will also keep them from obtaining liability insurance. Others say that the new law isn't restrictive enough, because it allows states to offer "not for federal ID" licenses that might be obtained by illegal immigrants."

No disagreement or controversy there, this is a NID!
« Last Edit: June 02, 2005, 11:56:49 pm by UnstructuredAgain »
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Mr. Bill

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ID Resist
« Reply #110 on: June 03, 2005, 01:56:06 pm »

Quote
"... Some argue that the new law only sets forth national standards, but leaves the issuance of cards and the maintenance of databases in state hands; therefore, it is not a true "national ID" system, and may even forestall the arrival of national ID...."

No disagreement or controversy there, this is a NID!
Well, I know that. But I've actually seen that argument, apparently from Bushaholics -- Real ID is going to save us from the horrors of National ID!

So I had to put it in for balance. But I'd hope that anyone with one or two neurons will be able to see that it's just word games.
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ozarksnick

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ID Resist
« Reply #111 on: June 04, 2005, 04:38:03 pm »

Hi all relatively new to the forum, now for my first post.

So-and-so back yonder a ways says that folks need to have an ID so that they can prove that they are who they say they are, and so that they can prove that they own what they own, etc.

I say bull!

Since the issue of RealID has come up, I've given thought to those ideas and they are bumpkus. A law abiding citizen of this country does not need to prove anything to anybody!

Remember that great little phrase, "innocent till proven guilty?" That's why I don't have to prove anything. Our society has changed from that basic premise of law to the idea that once accused we have to prove our innocence (hell it's even before we're accused now). Instead of being treated like the folks at liberty we really are (supposed to be anyway), we are constantly having to "prove" that we are not some criminal pulling a heist. At the bank, power company, telephone companies, etc., we have to prove that we are not criminals. Which is the wrong way to go about it.

Mandatory government ID is wrong any way you look at it.

Now there are tough questions that go with this line of thinking. At a bank, how do you prove that you really are the one who opened that account and that that money is yours? I don't really know. Maybe the accounts are random strings of numbers to which you also set a PIN that no one else knows, oh wait? ... isn't that what they do in Switzerland?

Sure there are still problems like folks being able to hack the numbers and get your money. But that's what's so great about the free market system, folks are great about making money by solving problems.

But the bottom line is that I am not a criminal and do not have to prove anything to anyone. And also that I will not willing forfeit any of my liberty based upon a bunch of "what if" scenarios.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2005, 04:39:24 pm by ozarksnick »
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purplekitty

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ID Resist
« Reply #112 on: June 04, 2005, 05:08:06 pm »

Quote
Hi all relatively new to the forum, now for my first post.

Remember that great little phrase, "innocent till proven guilty?" That's why I don't have to prove anything. Our society has changed from that basic premise of law to the idea that once accused we have to prove our innocence (hell it's even before we're accused now). Instead of being treated like the folks at liberty we really are (supposed to be anyway), we are constantly having to "prove" that we are not some criminal pulling a heist. At the bank, power company, telephone companies, etc., we have to prove that we are not criminals. Which is the wrong way to go about it.
Hi ozarksnick. I'm new here too. I keep putting my two cents in, I think I'm about broke now.  ;)

Anyway, you have a good point that it's not "innocent till proven guilty" anymore.  It's like everybody assumes that if you're accused of anything than you MUST be guilty and defending yourself is almost just making excuses.  We're just a quick hop away from having no chance of even trying to defend yourself.  Trials without juries and convictions without the chance of defense.

I'd thank you for bringing this to my attention... but it doesn't make me very happy.  :angry:  
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Roy J. Tellason

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ID Resist
« Reply #113 on: June 04, 2005, 05:41:26 pm »

Quote
 
Quote
Hi all relatively new to the forum, now for my first post.

Welcome.

Quote
So-and-so back yonder a ways says that folks need to have an ID so that they can prove that they are who they say they are, and so that they can prove that they own what they own, etc.

I say bull!

Since the issue of RealID has come up, I've given thought to those ideas and they are bumpkus. A law abiding citizen of this country does not need to prove anything to anybody!

That's a perfectly valid opinion as far as I'm concerned,  but then there are those who would disagree (more below).

Quote
Remember that great little phrase, "innocent till proven guilty?" That's why I don't have to prove anything. Our society has changed from that basic premise of law to the idea that once accused we have to prove our innocence (hell it's even before we're accused now). Instead of being treated like the folks at liberty we really are (supposed to be anyway), we are constantly having to "prove" that we are not some criminal pulling a heist. At the bank, power company, telephone companies, etc., we have to prove that we are not criminals. Which is the wrong way to go about it.

Sure is.

Quote
But the bottom line is that I am not a criminal and do not have to prove anything to anyone. And also that I will not willing forfeit any of my liberty based upon a bunch of "what if" scenarios.

But here's the thing -- you get asked for ID by some law enforcement officer and don't produce it the odds are pretty good that you _will_ be taken into custody,  unless you're in a fairly small town and people (including the cop in question) already know who you are.  And this is the way it's been for oh,  at least the past 40 years that I know of personally,  no idea how it was before that.

Not that I'm saying this is right or anything,  don't get me wrong,  but that seems to be how it is.

Couple any sort of behavior that they could consider "suspicious" and it only gets worse.  As is also the case if you're operating a motor vehicle.  What the heck you're supposed to do if your wallet gets lost or stolen I don't know.

Sucks,  don't it?
 
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ozarksnick

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ID Resist
« Reply #114 on: June 04, 2005, 09:25:43 pm »

Quote
But here's the thing -- you get asked for ID by some law enforcement officer and don't produce it the odds are pretty good that you _will_ be taken into custody,  unless you're in a fairly small town and people (including the cop in question) already know who you are.  And this is the way it's been for oh,  at least the past 40 years that I know of personally,  no idea how it was before that.

Not that I'm saying this is right or anything,  don't get me wrong,  but that seems to be how it is.

Couple any sort of behavior that they could consider "suspicious" and it only gets worse.  As is also the case if you're operating a motor vehicle.  What the heck you're supposed to do if your wallet gets lost or stolen I don't know.

Sucks,  don't it?

Yup it does suck.

Perhaps I got a little over zealous with that first post. ;)

I'm not trying to say that I don't use ID, because at this point I do. I'm just saying that our society has flip-flopped. We've gone from being folks at liberty to being full-time suspects.

I will not use a NationalID, and I'm going to start curtailing my use of state ID. Not exactly sure what all I'll be doing, but ...

We already purchase a good portion of our groceries from local sources that wouldn't blink an eye about me not showing any ID. So hopefully that'll stay good. We're also ramping up our personal food production as well.

Driving? I'm not sure what I'm going to do about that. The only thing I've come up with so far is that I know most of the little dirt backroads around this county and I have never once seen a patrol car out there unless there was a fire or some such. Working for the paper, I got to see the tickets stats for the sheriff's dept here and they wrote a whopping grand total of 42 tickets the entire year, so I'd bet that if you stayed on the backroads here as much as possible you'd never ever get pulled over.

We're going to start stocking up on things that we can not procure locally without ID, such as rifles and ammo and things of that nature.

What else? ... Hmm... not sure.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2005, 09:31:09 pm by ozarksnick »
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UnstructuredAgain

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ID Resist
« Reply #115 on: June 05, 2005, 01:56:18 pm »

Stock up on your cash and alternate ways of getting it and buy valuables private party. You may still be able to write checks you receive to other people so they can use their NID to cash them.  

Mr. Bill,
Good work indeed!  I wasn't trying to criticize.  That's a good tactic and I would hope some people would have 2 or more neurons.  :)
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Simon_Jester

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ID Resist
« Reply #116 on: June 11, 2005, 10:57:46 pm »

Educating people is fine. Opposition is fine. Even "rebellion" against the RID is a great idea. But, the finest way to turn people against RID is to support it. Fully. Make Sensenbrenner look like an opponent to RID. Become the poster child for the Act. Being honest about the act, brutally honest, in what it will do. Therein lies the solution to turning people against it before they even know what it is.
Fliers work. Graffiti. Blogs. Letters to the editor. All in support of the RID. One of the primary reasons for the act is to keep out Mexicans and other riff raff, right? And if a person has nothing to hide then a national ID should be nothing to fear, should it? Only people with something they don't wish to get out are against it. Child molestors? Tax dodgers? Terrorists? Support the RID......that's the way to make people take notice.


UnstructuredAgain

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ID Resist
« Reply #117 on: June 29, 2005, 07:18:24 pm »

Anything new coming along with this, or did people forget?  I suppose it's hard to hold any momentum after the rage that followed the initial announcements.  Anyone bringing the message to the masses yet?

Peace and Good Day
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T.H.E. Cat

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ID Resist
« Reply #118 on: June 30, 2005, 08:40:30 am »

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Anything new coming along with this, or did people forget? I suppose it's hard to hold any momentum after the rage that followed the initial announcements. Anyone bringing the message to the masses yet?

I've made mention to several people around me but all I get is blank stares as if to say "What are you talking about".  <_<

It's like anyting else with the sheeple they don't know what they've lost until it's gone.

Cat
 
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Mr. Bill

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ID Resist
« Reply #119 on: June 30, 2005, 04:16:48 pm »

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Anything new coming along with this, or did people forget?  I suppose it's hard to hold any momentum after the rage that followed the initial announcements.  Anyone bringing the message to the masses yet?
To the extent that Wikipedia counts as "bringing the message to the masses", I did some of that (rewrote the Wikipedia Real ID Act article). But really, that only reaches the relatively small proportion of Internet users who use Wikipedia.

I spammed my friends about it, and received several unexpectedly sympathetic responses. But even these tended to be of the form "Oh, it's terrible, but it's too late, it's a lost cause."

I expect that many of the state governments will issue strenuous objections, all basically saying "We states refuse to bow down to this blatant interference in states' rights unless the federal government picks up all the costs, in which case we will lick the federal government's boots."
 
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