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Author Topic: ID Resist  (Read 127577 times)

PaineOfThought

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ID Resist
« Reply #45 on: May 17, 2005, 10:26:56 pm »

The International DL sounded very interesting so I looked it up.

Unfortunately, in reality it sounds more like global Real ID.

http://www.idl-international.com/

quote: The IDL offers authentic international translations of pertinent passport and personal data to foreign officials.

 
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thistle

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ID Resist
« Reply #46 on: May 17, 2005, 10:30:04 pm »

Don't know about Canadian DL, but Claire wrote an article at WND mentioning the International DL.  www.idl-international.com was the site she recommended.

Not to disparge Claire or anything, but up until I read that article I always wrote those sites off as scams.

Actually (after quick a google), snopes.com has it listed under scams.

http://www.snopes.com/inboxer/scams/license.asp

Quote
An International Driving Permit (not an "International Driver's License," which is what most of the scam ads claim to be peddling) is essentially a booklet containing translations of the information found on your "real" driver's license into  eleven different languages (including English, French, Spanish, Russian, Chinese, German, Arabic, Italian, and Portuguese). In accordance with several United Nations conventions on road safety, most U.N. member nations have agreed to recognize and accept IDPs. (Some countries require foreign drivers to have IDPs, some prefer but don't require them, and some don't require them at all.) The IDP is not a license in itself, however — it is merely a translation of your existing driver's license, and it must be used in conjunction with your existing driver's license.

Sounds like IDL's aren't any good for changing your identity or an alternative to your regular driver's license. IMO
 
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"It was so cold yesterday that I saw a politician with his hands in his own pockets"

Dave Polaschek

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ID Resist
« Reply #47 on: May 18, 2005, 09:43:55 am »

I've found it much more effective in conversations to compare REAL-ID to the internal passports required in the Soviet bloc than to anything done in Nazi Germany.

It helps that there are a lot of eastern europeans around here who are familiar with the Cold-War-era Soviet security apparatus, and were already a little dubious about the new national ID. When I point out that you can't drive, ride Amtrak, Greyhound, or an airplane without a DL today, and with this new law, there's a mandated national ID, I get thoughtful looks.

I figure we've got roughly a year to fight this thing before states start issuing upgraded IDs, maybe less. And two and change to shut it down before its completely implemented. Time to start moving, and I think some sort of effective logo/picture that doesn't invoke either the Nazis or the Birchers (and barcode-related things do that around here) needs to happen soon.

There's also the section of H.R. 418 (Real ID) would require the Secretary of Homeland Security to waive any and all laws that he determines necessary, in his sole discretion, to ensure the expeditious construction of barriers and roads...

The upshot? It allows SecDHS to trump any laws that get in the way of building a barrier on the border near San Diego. Maybe something that evokes the Berlin Wall would be an effective bit of propaganda, especially when combined with comparisons of the new mandated ID to an internal passport.
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TheGrayMan

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ID Resist
« Reply #48 on: May 18, 2005, 09:46:59 am »

Sorry if this is a dupe.

I found this interesting especially since I found the link while "skimming" through site that is pretty friendly to our current state of (Big) Brotherhood.


http://www.alternet.org/rights/21977/



 
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securitysix

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ID Resist
« Reply #49 on: May 18, 2005, 10:27:34 am »

Quote
Sorry if this is a dupe.

I found this interesting especially since I found the link while "skimming" through site that is pretty friendly to our current state of (Big) Brotherhood.


http://www.alternet.org/rights/21977/
Quote
But my primary objection isn't the totalitarian potential of national IDs, nor the likelihood that they'll create a whole immense new class of social and economic dislocations. Nor is it the opportunities they will create for colossal boondoggles by government contractors. My objection to the national ID card, at least for the purposes of this essay, is much simpler.

It won't work. It won't make us more secure.

After reading this, I propose we use Benjamin Franklin as a gulch power source.
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"That's what governments are for; get in a man's way." - Malcom Reynolds

"This country has come to feel the same when Congress is in session as when the baby gets hold of a hammer." - Will Rogers

suijurisfreeman

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ID Resist
« Reply #50 on: May 18, 2005, 12:53:10 pm »

Ultimately it will come down to just saying hell no!   Actually it's rather easy, say it with me, HELL NO!   :P  
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Kirsten

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ID Resist
« Reply #51 on: May 18, 2005, 01:38:06 pm »

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« Last Edit: February 22, 2007, 11:34:27 am by Kirsten »
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Claire

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ID Resist
« Reply #52 on: May 18, 2005, 03:53:12 pm »

Quote
Not to disparge Claire or anything, but up until I read that article I always wrote those sites off as scams.
These licenses/permits are real things ... but being marketed with scammish, misleading claims.

Thing is ... at the time I wrote the article, some folks who stood their ground were winning in court when they had nothing but an IDL/IDP. Doubt they could now, as the police, lawyers, and judges are more aware.

Don't worry about disparaging me. When I'm wrong, everybody's better off (including me) if you correct me.
« Last Edit: May 18, 2005, 03:55:29 pm by Claire »
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Just as the flattery of friends often leads us astray, so the insults of enemies often do us good. -- St. Augustine, Confessions, Book IX, Chapter 8


When faith ceases to be a challenge to the standards of polite society, it is no longer, or has not yet become, faith. -- Donald Spoto, Reluctant Saint:  The Life of Francis of Assisi


My life is my message. -- Gandhi

Mr. Bill

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ID Resist
« Reply #53 on: May 18, 2005, 06:30:27 pm »

Quote
I wasn't satisfied with any of the anti-Real-ID info sites I've seen so far, so I made my own...
...which I screwed up on the first try. I was reading an obsolete version of the bill. Aargh!

So here it is again, with corrections:

"The Real ID Act: Real Problems"

Some important points that I got wrong originally:

The States may issue a "second-tier" license that is clearly marked as not valid for Federal ID purposes, for people who can't/won't provide all the required documentation. (The States are not required to provide this option, though.)

Database-sharing between the states is effectively mandatory (not just something they have to do to get Federal funding).

When the Sec of Homeland Security waives laws to get the border fence built, there is not a "no judicial review" clause protecting him. But there are limits on judicial review, which are still worrisome and perhaps unconstitutional.

Ugh.

Claire, thanks for your kind comments. I think there's a need for many different approaches on this issue, and as for me, I can't write high-temperature rabble-rousing stuff. I'm glad that you (and others) can.
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Joel

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ID Resist
« Reply #54 on: May 19, 2005, 10:54:59 am »

Check this out from Sunni's blog...



 :lol:  
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Yet another Freedomista blog: The Ultimate Answer to Kings is not a bullet, but a belly laugh.

Mr. Bill

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ID Resist
« Reply #55 on: May 19, 2005, 04:28:22 pm »

Here's a link to an article in InformationWeek about technology issues related to Real ID:

'Real ID' Faces Reality

The article is broadly sympathetic towards the Real ID system (afer all, it means lots of work in the information technology industry), and refers to Ron Paul's forecasts of Big-Brotherism as "perhaps a bit far out".

Here's the sort of thing they don't consider far-out:

Quote
As machine-readable IDs take hold, the private sector could rely on them in new ways and perhaps play a more-direct role in helping verify identities before IDs are issued, says Maxwell of the American Association of Motor Vehicle Administrators. If states allow an electric or gas bill as evidence of residency to issue a driver's license, they might need to link to a utility's customer database to prove the invoice is real. Databases such as those managed by ChoicePoint Inc. and LexisNexis could be checked to verify information provided by a license applicant. Maxwell envisions airport-security personnel or even banks scanning in an ID, then being allowed to link up with state motor-vehicle databases to compare the images and data on driver's licenses before allowing a person to board a plane or open an account.

Gosh, that's reassuring.
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Delos

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ID Resist
« Reply #56 on: May 19, 2005, 09:07:22 pm »

Quote
If I am going to be denied or risk being denied medical care, the ability to conduct basic financial transactions, to travel when necessary, etc... or if I risk being incarcerated as a result of doing any of the above and other things without government-approved ID, then saying hell no is not all there is to it for me.  I wish it were that simple, but for most of us that's not remarkably practical advice.  I will resist in every practical way I can, but I have no plans to die or rot in a jail cell over this.


Kirsten,

Wouldn't it seem to you like bondage, bending to government's every capricious whim, and anyway, what do you want to do--live forever?

"Just say no!" is damn good policy, IMO. It's is essentially, and simply, the right thing to do.
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Kirsten

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ID Resist
« Reply #57 on: May 20, 2005, 12:43:29 am »

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« Last Edit: February 22, 2007, 11:33:59 am by Kirsten »
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Misfit

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ID Resist
« Reply #58 on: May 20, 2005, 03:09:10 am »

It's a hard call, Kirsten. I think we're all spending a lot of time in recent days contemplating our options.
It's becoming more and more clear that "crunch time" is coming fast and we all have to make up our minds what we're going to do.

My husband and I are already much more on the edge of society than we used to be. We have no health insurance and don't go to the doctor unless it's an emergency (and we have had some, including having an amputated finger reattached, and have mananged). Unfortunately, we also have gotten pretty used to being out of work for periods of time and picking up odd jobs. (I, actually, did some side work for someone here at TCF recently.) Our income was below the tax threshold this past year, not by our choice so much, but I do get the bonus satisfaction of knowing the govt got nothing from us last year. Maybe we'll be as "lucky" this year too. All this has seemed to be fated for us, it seems like we've been getting a crash course in learning to be adaptable and getting down to bare bones living. As in, remembering that for the majority of human history we've had no insurance, no pensions, no credit cards, no electricity....we can survive without those things if we need to...honest.

For some people this is "The Mark of the Beast" and is to be refused at all costs. I don't know if I believe that's what this NID is or not, but it's evil no matter what it is. I'm just debating whether I'm willing to kill or be killed for my beliefs. I figure, in the end we all wind up dead, might as well go out standing on my principles. Death isn't the worst possible outcome, letting them control our lives is. I'd also rather be a political prisoner locked up than a compliant citizen on the outside. (Not that I'm going to volunteer for any of those things.)

T.H.E. Cat

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ID Resist
« Reply #59 on: May 20, 2005, 11:18:08 am »

When Claire began this thread she asked for ways of resisting the onslaught of the NID. I downloaded the whole thread and read from the beginning to end. I saw a couple of solutions given.

One that was voiced a few times was “Just say No”. That would be good if more and more people in this country understood the consequences it will have on them in the long run. I’d be willing to bet that if you took a small segment of the population and asked the question of what you think about the NID most would say they heard something about. Ask them if they think it would be harmful and again I’d be willing to bet that many haven’t even given that much thought. The way to get the message across to these people would be educating them. How? You could write an opinion in the local Sunday paper on the Editors Page. Our Sunday paper has such a section were people voice their opinions and you don’t have to have your name printed after it if you don’t want. In our area there is also a paper that has want ads, for sale ads, and other advertisement in it call the Penny Saver. This paper usually serves several surrounding counties. In it is a section called “I just Gotta’ Vent”. You can write your opinion there also anonymously. In another section of this web site I saw a thread about bumper stickers. I think that’s another good idea, although some thought not and gave good reasons. I say a magnetic one so you can take it of fast. I’d have several made with different themes.

The word here is education. What needs to happen is to get the word out to the ordinary citizen. Having web sites is fine, but the majority of the people are not going to look for web sites such as this. They are busy on AOL exchanging pictures and down loading MP3 music. Also there are still quite a number of people out there without computers; the word needs to get to them too.

I just got another flash of insight. Add web site addresses to the bumper stickers or opinion that are written to the papers I mentioned above and point them to this sight and others.

Quote
If I am going to be denied or risk being denied medical care, the ability to conduct basic financial transactions, to travel when necessary, etc... or if I risk being incarcerated as a result of doing any of the above and other things without government-approved ID, then saying hell no is not all there is to it for me. I wish it were that simple, but for most of us that's not remarkably practical advice. I will resist in every practical way I can, but I have no plans to die or rot in a jail cell over this.

I feel the same why Kristen does in the statement she made. Also I’m no good to anybody or the resistance if I’m incarcerated or dead.

I hope I’ve given some people ideas here as how to get the word out.

Cat
 
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