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Author Topic: #21 in 101 Things  (Read 3409 times)

k.i.s.s

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#21 in 101 Things
« on: June 06, 2005, 05:46:52 pm »

Hi all. New to this board but long time Claire fan.  Forgive me if this has been covered before, but can anyone tell me what site to go to, to print up copies of  "Privacy Act Limitations On Social Security Numbers" put out by a group called the Heritage Caucus? Have Googled to no avail.  Any help will be much appreciated. Thanks!








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Jac

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#21 in 101 Things
« Reply #1 on: June 06, 2005, 06:15:58 pm »

Welcome, k.i.s.s. ... (that's hard to type with all those dots. :D )

Is this it?:
"The following is not copyrighted and the Caucus encourages you to make
copies and give them to anyone who unlawfully requests your number. …
"PRIVACY ACT LIMITATIONS ON SOCIAL SECURITY NUMBER USAGE
Since many people objected to extensive loss of privacy which accompanied
the use of computers, Washington responded by passing the "Privacy Act,"
Title 5 of the United States Code Annotated 552(a). It states quite simply
that, "It shall he unlawful… to deny any individual any right, benefit or
privilege provided by law because of such individual's refusal to disclose
his Social Security number." Due to it, courts have ruled, in part:
"Right of privacy is a personal right designed to protect persons from
unwanted disclosure of personal information..." (CNA Financial Corporation
v.  Local 743, D.C., Ill., 1981, 515F, Supp. 942, III.)
The District Court in Delaware held that the Privacy Act:
"Was enacted for [ purpose of curtailing the expanding use of Social
Security numbers...and to eliminate the threat to individual privacy and
confidentiality posed by common numerical identifiers." (Doyle V. Wilson,
D.C., Del., 1982, 529G, Supp. 1343.)
In the strongly worded Guideline arid Regulations for Maintenance of
Privacy and Protection of Records on Individuals it is stated:
"(a) It shall be unlawful...to deny to any individual any right, benefit or
privilege provided by law because of such individual's refusal to disclose
his Social Security account number."
The Privacy Act calls for the following penalty for knowingly violating it:
"(A) Actual damages sustained by the individual as a result of the refusal
or failure, but in no case shall a person entitled to recovery receive less
than the sum of $1,000; and (B) the costs of the action together with
reasonable attorney fees as determined by the court."
It is suggested that you take someone with you when you assert your rights
under the Privacy Act. He or she will witness the incident and testify (if
necessary) to the facts.
Courts have ruled that there are only four (4) instances when Social
Security numbers MUST be used. These are:
1. For tax purposes
2. To receive public assistance
3. To obtain and use a driver's license
4. To register a motor vehicle
In any situation not listed above, simply present this document to any
person who seems to need one. Invite him or her to make a copy. Point out
the $l,000 penalty that is guaranteed upon judgment that your rights were
violated under this act. Point out that an individual may personally be
required to pay the $1,000 if he/she is aware of the Privacy Act and
refuses to follow it. In Doyle v. Wilson, the court states: "Assuming that
the plaintiffs refusal to disclose his Social Security number was a clearly
established right, where defendants could not as reasonable persons have
been aware or the right and could not have recognized that any effort to
compel disclosure of number or to deny plaintiff his refund violated
federal law, damages against defendant were barred." (Doyle v. Wilson,
D.C., 1982, 529F, Supp 1343.)
It is quite clear that the individuals must be able to show that they could
not have been aware of the Privacy Act and could not have possibly realized
that their actions were in violation of federal law in order to escape the
$1,000 penalty.
Courtesy of the Heritage Caucus"
-- 101 Things to Do 'Til the Revolution", by Claire Wolfe

Don't have a link... just found this on some discussion list about Radio Shack asking for SSNs. Guess you could just copy and paste the text from here to make hard-copies.

--Jac
« Last Edit: June 06, 2005, 06:16:30 pm by Jac »
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Lightning

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#21 in 101 Things
« Reply #2 on: June 06, 2005, 06:30:55 pm »

Warm welcomes, k.i.s.s.  And a good question.

Glad Jac could help you out, 'cuz I was drawin' a blank.  :rolleyes:  The 'net - and the country - have changed a lot since Claire published 101 Things.  :ph34r:

Enjoy yourself here - glad to have thinkin' folks like yourself joining us.  B)
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k.i.s.s

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#21 in 101 Things
« Reply #3 on: June 06, 2005, 06:47:23 pm »

Jac, that's exactly it!  Thanks!  Afraid i am "technologically challenged" so will have to have my son do the cut and paste thing.  Sounds like carrying around a copy (per Claire) is a good idea.  Around here they even want your SSN to rent videos :angry:  Fat chance!!!  Just scarey to think how many people give up that number without even thinking why they shouldn't :(  Again, thanks so much for your help.  By the way , i'm sure you know that k.i.s.s. is the acronym for keep it simple, stupid---something i must remind myself to do every day :lol:            Thanks, Lightning, for the welcome. Seems like a really good group on these forums.
« Last Edit: June 06, 2005, 06:59:03 pm by k.i.s.s »
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NortonRyder

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#21 in 101 Things
« Reply #4 on: June 07, 2005, 10:36:24 am »

:ph34r: K.I.S.S. - Welcome from the Mid South.

     Another area that many people don't notice is at the checkout counter. If you pay by Credit or Debit card, a significant number of establishments still use older, outdated POS (Point of Sale, not Piece of S**t) terminals. Some of these do, on occasion, print your entire account number on the copy that you sign. You are perfectly within your rights to blank out the number. Most of the newer units replace the first 12 digits with '*'s, but some don't. I know the stores that I frequent, that display the number and I carry a felt pen for just such a purpose.

I have never had anyone question this. They don't need it, and there is no reason for them to have it. And don't even get me started on the Socialist Slave Numbers.

'Wrench Away,

NortonRyder  
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Jac

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#21 in 101 Things
« Reply #5 on: June 07, 2005, 10:53:25 am »

You're quite welcome, k.i.s.s.; glad I could help.

And your initial observations are, in my ever so humble opinion, correct; this is a great group. Hope you like it around here. B)  
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I have never regretted that I chose to "take the red pill." But there are days, just rarely, when the truth is so ugly, so brutal, so unmerciful, so relentless, that even if I wouldn't rip the truth from the wall socket and hurl it out the window to crash on the sidewalk below, I wouldn't mind if it featured a snooze button so we could savor just a few more moments in slumbered pretension and warm, fuzzy lies pulled snugly up over our heads.
--PSM

Mos2

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#21 in 101 Things
« Reply #6 on: June 07, 2005, 12:04:29 pm »

I notice that the statute says  "It shall he unlawful… to deny any individual any right, benefit or
privilege provided by law because of such individual's refusal to disclose
his Social Security number."

A business could very well argue that their services are not "provided by law", and can therefore insist on a SSN if they want to lose my business. :-)  
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Roy J. Tellason

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#21 in 101 Things
« Reply #7 on: June 07, 2005, 07:01:12 pm »

I had one local video rental place ask me for mine.  Told 'em:  "No!".  They were somewhat taken aback,  the clerk didn't know how to deal with it,  but I was just as ready to walk away and not rent anything,  so the manager quickly came up with some other way to deal with it...
 
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henshawe

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#21 in 101 Things
« Reply #8 on: July 05, 2005, 11:56:47 pm »

G'Day k.i.s.s

When I am asked for a SSN I have found that giving the individual or business asking for the number a Constructive Notice, here is the one I have used many times and in many different circumstances.

CONSTRUCTIVE NOTICE

To: (Person being served)                                 Date:

Of: (Name and address of Institution)

This instrument serves notice to the person and/or business, agency, corporation or other entity that the below named Citizen does not have and/or refuses to disclose a social security number. This Right is protected under the First, Fourth, Fifth, Ninth, and Tenth amendments to United States Constitution and provisions of the Privacy Act. The Privacy Act makes it unlawful to require an individual to disclose or furnish a social security number for any purpose, unless the disclosure or furnishing of the number is specifically required by law.

The federal courts have ruled that private sector solicitors may not obtain social security numbers until they comport their solicitations to comply with disclosure requirements of the Privacy Act, including informing customers of the voluntary nature of such disclosure, the source of authority for requesting such disclosure, and possible uses to which disclosed numbers might be put.

Yeager v. Hackensack Water Co., 615 F.Supp.1087 (1985).

Any person who is found violating the rights of a Citizen may be subject to the damages sustained by the individual and the costs of the action together with attorney fees. See Doyle v. Wilson, 529 F.Supp. 1343(1982). Violation of 18 USC §§241, 242; 42 USC §§1983, 1985 1986 shall subject you personally and may also subject you to fines of up to $10,000.00, and imprisonment for up to ten years, or both.

Federal regulations provide you an alternative, 26 CFR §§31.6011, 301.6109 and 31 CFR §§103.28, 103.34, 103.35, employers, banks and payers are required to ask for the social security number, but they shall not be in violation of this requirement if they have made a reasonable effort to secure such identification and are unable to secure the information.

Your policy must comply with the law and cannot violate the law or the Rights of Citizens.
Compliance with the Law and this Citizen's intent, as expressly evidenced and implied by this
document, is demanded. Noncompliance with this Notice and Demand shall result in the filing of a formal complaint with the appropriate State and federal agencies against the above named and/or representative(s).

Constructive Notice issued by:
Representing:
Witness:
Date:
Public Domain Form CN(02)-1999

Feel free to cut and paste and use to your hearts content, all the best,

Regards,

Americus
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imrowan

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#21 in 101 Things
« Reply #9 on: July 06, 2005, 12:23:59 am »

I would think it better to save constructive notices for actual agents of government. Renting videos may be a right under the 9th amendment to the bill of rights, but as far as the video store is concerned it's a privilege, unless you think you have the right to force them to do business with you -- and they're within their rights to decide you're too much trouble to have as a customer. There are a number of approaches one can take with employees of a business in such a situation which don't carry the extra baggage of making you look like some legal know it all and intimidating the poor drone into reflexively disliking and mistrusting you, which is generally what happens when one goes around dropping constructive notices on minimum wage clerks at the drop of a hat :)
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JustaCaveman

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#21 in 101 Things
« Reply #10 on: July 06, 2005, 09:54:38 am »

always remember don't give the number that really isn't yours anyway, to anyone, not to hospitals, cops, the bookstore, anyone!  the only possible exceptions were if you claim your ss "benefits" or pay taxes- the only two legitimate reasons, one of which can be done in another willing party's TIN.

take it easy
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Roy J. Tellason

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#21 in 101 Things
« Reply #11 on: July 06, 2005, 09:29:25 pm »

Quote
I would think it better to save constructive notices for actual agents of government. Renting videos may be a right under the 9th amendment to the bill of rights, but as far as the video store is concerned it's a privilege, unless you think you have the right to force them to do business with you -- and they're within their rights to decide you're too much trouble to have as a customer. There are a number of approaches one can take with employees of a business in such a situation which don't carry the extra baggage of making you look like some legal know it all and intimidating the poor drone into reflexively disliking and mistrusting you, which is generally what happens when one goes around dropping constructive notices on minimum wage clerks at the drop of a hat :)
I know that the local video store was one place where I would NOT give 'em my number.  They asked for it,  I left it out on the form,  they called it to my attention,  and I said "nope".  So the lady I was talking to consulted with her boss about was there some way to do it without,  and there sure was,  no problem...
 
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Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and ablest -- form of life in this section of space,  a critter that can be killed but can't be tamed.  --Robert A. Heinlein, "The Puppet Masters"
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Information is more dangerous than cannon to a society ruled by lies. --James M Dakin
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