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Author Topic: OFFICAL ANNOUNCEMENT: GWC II IS A GO  (Read 18923 times)

ladylearning

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OFFICAL ANNOUNCEMENT: GWC II IS A GO
« Reply #30 on: March 01, 2004, 06:29:24 pm »

Quote
Elias - she claims that the FSP says you MUST do something. That is not true. You can freely sign a contract which says you'll move. You don't have to sign that contract, therefore there is no "must" involved anywhere.

If she doesn't like that, then she doesn't need to commit herself. And she clearly didn't commit herself. I just don't like the misrepresentation of the whole FSP idea that she is making.

'Bug
Quote
Eastward I go only by force; but westward I go free. Thither no business leads me. It is hard for me to believe that I shall find fair landscapes or sufficient wildness and freedom behind the eastern horizon. I am not excited by the prospect of a walk thither; but I believe that the forest which I see in the western horizon stretches uninterruptedly toward the setting sun, and there are no towns nor cities in it of enough consequence to disturb me. Let me live where I will, on this side is the city, on that the wilderness, and ever I am leaving the city more and more, and withdrawing into the wilderness. I should not lay so much stress on this fact, if I did not believe that something like this is the prevailing tendency of my countrymen.....
 And that way the nation is moving, and I may say that mankind progress from east to west.
Henry David Thoreau


Bug, once again we become bogged in details. It is the concept that a contract must exist between an entity and myself in order for me to realize "freedom".  
The quote above has little or no bearing on this particular thread. With that said, those who favor the west are a certain breed. It's difficult to explain and perhaps futile for me to try since you disfavor the spiritual and value worldy REALITY.  
That's not a judgement, merely an observation.

LL  
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H.M. WoggleBug, T.E.

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OFFICAL ANNOUNCEMENT: GWC II IS A GO
« Reply #31 on: March 01, 2004, 06:43:15 pm »

Quote
With that said, those who favor the west are a certain breed.

I reject the notion that Western lovers are somehow more spiritually in tune with freedom or something. As I've said on several occasions, I LIVE in the West. I moved from the East Coast - which I detest - to the West in the 1980's. I live now rurally on a 17 acre "ranch", with a house not visible from the county road.

Though I don't wear a cowboy hat, I DO drive a pickup, and own a rifle and shotgun. I have shot and skinned a rattlesnake. I have killed a rabid animal, and camped in woods and everthing. I even like baked beans. (If we're going for cliches here)

I have lived in Terlingua, Texas, which is about as remote an area as you can get. I have property in NV. What's not "Western" about me? Jeez, you guys are not morally superior to porcupines. And porcupines are not morally superior to you, either.

I'm not getting bogged down in details. This is the essence of what we're all talking about. I merely want to ensure that FACTS are presented, and not inferences and suppositions, not to mention outright distortions. What's wrong with that?

'Bug
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Elias Alias

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OFFICAL ANNOUNCEMENT: GWC II IS A GO
« Reply #32 on: March 05, 2004, 12:41:31 am »

Quote
What's not "Western" about me? Jeez, you guys are not morally superior to porcupines. And porcupines are not morally superior to you, either.

Bug
Obviously, Bug, the only thing that ain't "western" about *you* is your willingness to move east! You *are* a porcupine, aren't you? (Just guessing here; are you signed up as a member who would move to New Hampshire?) In light of that, you're something akin to a lame duck porcupine, 'sfar as bein' "Western" goes. That is likely the reason why you lack the spiritual awareness of the Western mindset, the sovereign spirit within the code of the West, the fullness of the figure of lady liberty, the, (as Iloilo Jones puts it), *understanding* within some people whose considered necessities in life include an abundance of  "un-used air". :)

When are ye movin' back east, Bug?

 :huh:  
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H.M. WoggleBug, T.E.

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OFFICAL ANNOUNCEMENT: GWC II IS A GO
« Reply #33 on: March 05, 2004, 04:24:21 am »

Quote
. That is likely the reason why you lack the spiritual awareness of the Western mindset, the sovereign spirit within the code of the West,

A yes, "spiritual awareness". You're right, I don't believe in unprovable bs.

I would submit, sir, that I have more interest in liberty than all the Westerners who opted out of NH, and can't be bothered with actually moving their lazy butts.

'nuff said.

'Bug
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Elias Alias

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OFFICAL ANNOUNCEMENT: GWC II IS A GO
« Reply #34 on: March 05, 2004, 10:15:15 am »

Quote
A yes, "spiritual awareness". You're right, I don't believe in unprovable bs.

 
I rest my case.

:)
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ladylearning

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OFFICAL ANNOUNCEMENT: GWC II IS A GO
« Reply #35 on: March 05, 2004, 05:18:17 pm »

Quote
You're right, I don't believe in unprovable bs.

Bug, I'm straying pretty far off topic here but perhaps you, and the board,  will forgive me yet one more question. (thanks for the insight into your interest in quantum "stuff")
As far as invisable things go, do you believe in love?

LL  
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ZooT_aLLures

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OFFICAL ANNOUNCEMENT: GWC II IS A GO
« Reply #36 on: March 05, 2004, 06:29:35 pm »

HMwogglebug TE,

Are you sure you're interested in freedom and liberty, or are you interested in the promotion of some personal agenda?

I see an awful lot of sour grapes in your words, and I kinda' think it has a little bit more to do with something other than any western project.......

Maybe you're upset because "the gang" has split, and now your forced to face the idea that maybe you won't be able to hide behind quite as large of a group or be part of quite a large "extended family", with it's social and more importantly economic or political benefits.
Those of true FSP faith, while upset, aren't out harrassing folks, and I'm quite sure that those of true faith are planning their move as we speak, whether the FSP numbers 50 million or 5 people.
They'll stand on their own if need be......an army of one.......like Elias and suijuris and many others.....rather than condemn, I salute those brave souls......

Liberty is a two sided street, and if you want liberty for you, then in turn you must also want liberty for all......even those who choose to make their stand a thousand miles away.

You know.......one of the wisest and certainly the grouchiest anarchist I know shared his thoughts with me on the FSP and any other such project.

He said that even though the FSP wanted something good, could they move into an area and push their agenda through by the political means without forcing that agenda unto others?
Under who's authority could they claim the right to do such a thing except through the authority of the state while using the political means?
Therefore are they or are they not using the organized force that is state to promote personal agenda of their majority?

The act of voting is an attempt to use a majority choice to adopt an agenda, and to impose that agenda unto all, and this seems to be where you're coming from right now.........(we voted on it, me and my agenda being the majority won, and you are trying to back out...therefore you are a scoundrel)
Is this the freedom and liberty you so desire?
The freedom to attempt to use guilt or accusations to promote or impose your agenda upon others?


Quite honestly, that sounds like a politician to me...*LoL*


The very act of using the "political means" to promote agenda, means that one isn't against using the organized force of the political means to force that agenda unto others..........
Would it be safe to assume that not everyone subscribes to that or in fact any agenda?
What about those people?


Purportedly our original government was designed to protect a minority from a majority via the mention of inalienable "creator granted, or inherent as part of  the human condition" rights that were above and beyond reproach in ANY manner, yet it seems that nobody bothers to consider anything like this anymore......even, or in this case particularly the FSP's angry minority who are out lambasting those who are....as "you" put it,
Quote
"the westerners who opted out of NH and can't be bothered with actually moving their lazy butts".

Given this, will you or are you attempting to deny or dissuade others the right to do as they please, and if so, how can you consider yourself to be any better than that which you yourself joined the FSP to try to get away from?.....cohersion, in this case via verbal or textual humiliation.

By or under what authority are you granted the "right" to question the "free" choice of others, and insult or otherwise humiliate them if they don't decide to follow you and your agenda?

Without spirituality there is no morality, nor right and wrong, but instead only desire, and therefore you can't claim to be doing it because it's "the right thing to do", and pointing to your renouncement of spirituality as "bunk", it's because you "desire" others to follow your agenda.
And from what I see you're not above attacking them if they don't..........

Freedom and liberty starts with self and ones own words and actions.......Think about that very carefully.......
« Last Edit: March 05, 2004, 06:31:13 pm by ZooT_aLLures »
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Even some cowboy and indian outlaws in the 1800's eventually stopped sleeping under buffalo skins, and came to town to entertain paying customers. For some I imagine the bruising of their ego never healed.

We all have some scar tissue that never lets us completely forget the intent of the adventure.

H.M. WoggleBug, T.E.

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OFFICAL ANNOUNCEMENT: GWC II IS A GO
« Reply #37 on: March 05, 2004, 09:33:19 pm »

Quote
Are you sure you're interested in freedom and liberty, or are you interested in the promotion of some personal agenda?

No personal agenda, other than what I've stated here, several times.

The sour grapes involved are with the Westerners, not with me.

If you notice one thread running throughout my posts, is that I seek ACCURATE and PRECISE definitions for FSP goals and motivations. I call people on their distortions or misperceptions about the FSP, and for that matter about the Western  people.

I merely try to disabuse them of their misperceptions, and I am excoriated as being too detail oriented. No, I am merely being precise. Seemingly small things may actually be root causes of large misperceptions.

My main problem is with this notion that Western People are some how a superior life form, more in touch with Nature or nature, than "Easterners". This may have been true 150 years ago, but in this wired world it is no longer relevant.

The State can wield its power in Cheyenne just as readily as Manchester. Actually, it can wield it easier! Look at the deserts in the Middle East for an example.

The communications, news, entertainment, electric power, etc. are all identical continent wide.

However, the disaffection with Uncle Sam has pockets of adherents. On such pocket is NH. In my view, the fact that it is surrounded on all sides by socialists and still is freedom loving is a fine testament to their tenacity. They may be the only ones left with the old "Yankee Ingenuity" on the Least Coast.

The disaffection in the West exists, too. It may be more concentrated in places, and more diffuse in others, but BOTH are just as relevant. There is no difference; no inferior between the two. THAT is the only message I send.

I'm willing to shut up about all this, as my points have been made to the people receptive to them. Believe it or not, all I wanted was accuracy, not misperceptions. I have said - publicly and here - that I assumed the Western efforts were here to stay, and came up with the "Fast Food" analogy that I hope takes hold and makes both stronger.

Let's concentrate on freedom, and not geography.

'Bug
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Elias Alias

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OFFICAL ANNOUNCEMENT: GWC II IS A GO
« Reply #38 on: March 06, 2004, 02:50:14 am »

Yo, Zoot!

That was a fine piece of psychological firing there. :)

Now that the worry-bug has stated that he has become healed and no longer is fevered by the festering of the "sour grapes syndrome" within his non-existant mental states, and is ready to talk about liberty instead of geography, well, heck,  I reckon we can get back to our celebration of the GWCII, which, iirc, spawned this thread, lol.

Now we're free to discuss freedom, so let's do it. To begin, I'd like to share with you something which was in my mailbox tonight. It must have dropped in from the great wide Internet, right out of the blue. I'm not at liberty to say who sent this; neither am I at liberty to say who wrote it. Readers here may know, see, or guess from which quarter this topic originates, but I'll not say more. The names of the author and sender are not important anyway. What is important is the meaning in the words, and their astonishing pertinency to the thread here. I'd like to offer them to you because I think they shall give warmth to your smile as you read them and see the meaning they carry.  Please note that this in no way is evidence of any intent to give the bug any new candles o'er which to flutter.....

~

begin pasted section from an anonymous email:

(snip)

The softer, the more subtle, and the more diffuse the 'free state' objectives are, the fewer people will move to the free state(s). I believe this is the real problem affecting the New Hampshire FSP. It isn't just that they "chose the wrong state". It is that they have no clear strategy or objectives, and they generally tend to "play it safe". Playing it safe is anathema to building up a political cause, and it will toll heavily upon the Free State Project. In the end, 90% of the people participating in the project will be people who didn't have to move to the state in question; who didn't sacrifice anything financially getting there. As the movement slows down and gets even more nebulous, these people will also be the first to abandon the project and chalk it all up to experience.

  There is apparently no game plan for New Hampshire to experience "liberty in our lifetime". This is the first thing Jason did wrong. And moving 20,000 people to one spot, with no political strategy, does not constitute a game plan.

  I'm assuming the free west movement has a game plan that will accomplish its objectives.

  I can only think of one game plan that will work: Separation of those who want liberty from the government that is oppressing them. This does not require sedition or overthrow of the Federal government. But it does require making a decision favoring separation, and a revolutionary attitude in the hearts and minds of the participants.  

  The hierarchy of government oppression, for most people, descends in the following order: ( A ) Federal, ( B ) State, ( C ) Municipal, ( D ) County. The oppression at level ( A ) is ferocious and affects all living American citizens (as well as any citizens of other countries who fall within Federal gunsights). The oppression at level ( B ) is milder, but still corrupted and expensive to a citizen's pocketbook. However, the biggest problem with state-level tyranny is that it is obeisant to Federal tyranny.

  Attacking the problem from tyranny level level ( D ), with a small number of people, seems to be the free west objective from what I've read so far. Generally speaking, tyranny level ( D ), in real life, needs very little fixing in the first place. In rural areas it needs almost no fixing at all. Meanwhile, tyranny level ( A ) is running amuck, invading other countries without provocation, passing fascistic laws; lying to, scheming against, propagandizing toward, and spying upon the grossly overtaxed citizenry. What is fixing the problem at level ( D ) going to accomplish? Better and cheaper gravel roads...?

  If you want people to bite the bullet on anywhere from $10,000-$200,000 personal financial hardship, and pull up roots and go to the "free west", you are going to have to offer them something meaningful, which, IMHO, means something politically rebellious toward our country's increasingly arrogant and dangerously tyrannical Federal government.

  The War of Independence did not develop as a result of people banding together and saying "let's all move to western Pennsylvania, far from these British Army regulars, and ignore the problem." It developed as a result of people protesting the source of the tyranny--the King, and his swarms of officers harrassing the people.

  You cannot light a bonfire of resolution in a patch of mushrooms, while hiding in the darkened corner of a musty cow barn.

  If the free west movement TAKES A STAND against Washington, rebels against Washington, and has a plan to shake off the shackles, it will attract followers. If it doesn't, I don't believe it will ever go anywhere.

  The biggest problem in the US today is that the ruling powers of the Federal government--the President, the attorney general, public agencies, the Congress, and the judiciary--are out of control. All are aggressively doing all they can to eliminate the last wounded remnants of our constitutional government. Focusing political efforts on a county approach will do absolutely nothing to solve this problem. Focusing on a state level will similarly do next to nothing--unless the threat of secession is one of the menu choices.  

  If you abandon secession as a concept you are throwing away all potential for the movement to have any teeth. Yes, avoiding it will make for nicer editorials in the newspapers around Montana, Wyoming, and Idaho. On the other hand, almost nobody will move to those three states in connection with a movement that has no clear-cut goal for dealing with the political problems we are supposed to face.

  Much of the free state movement reminds me of the "revolution talk" that was common among hippies in the late 60s and early 70s. Hippies did many interesting things, and when they grew up, they luckily inherited a Leftward-leaning socialist US government..but there was never any 'revolution', as jonesed-over in such songs as "Imagine" and "Share the Land". Nothing came of the revolution talk but hot-air campfire conversation over doobies and toasted marshmallows.

*end pasted section.

~

Well, I guess the "S" word is out of the bag, hehehe. How does the above strike you?

 :ph34r:
« Last Edit: March 06, 2004, 02:57:17 am by Elias Alias »
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Danl

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OFFICAL ANNOUNCEMENT: GWC II IS A GO
« Reply #39 on: March 06, 2004, 08:07:53 am »

LL,

Are you going to make it to GWC II?

Sounds like Elias lives there.  Poor sap has to look at the Tobacco Roots amoung other mountains every morning...  Sigh....

Regards, Danl
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http://www.freecolorado.com/2004/02/bostonreply.html

Elias Alias

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OFFICAL ANNOUNCEMENT: GWC II IS A GO
« Reply #40 on: March 06, 2004, 01:46:29 pm »

Quote
LL,

Are you going to make it to GWC II?

Sounds like Elias lives there.  Poor sap has to look at the Tobacco Roots amoung other mountains every morning...  Sigh....

Regards, Danl
Danl,
Not to cut in ahead of LL, I'll verify that I do live in the Gallatin Valley of southwest Montana. I'm making it through my third winter here, which has had much more snow than the previous two, btw. On days which are not full of snow clouds, I can see the whole Tobacco Root range off to the western side of the great valley. Old Hollow Top, the highest peak in the Tobacco Root range, is jam-packed full of snow, and all the peaks of the range are frosted white like diefied kings frozen in a jagged line of Natural authority, like corporeal chess pieces arranged for the attack upon the mundane by the forces of Beauty. They stand there for all to see,  silently boasting the lordly  whims of glory. Inspiring!

I found this valley back in the mid-1980s, when I took a few years out of my life-long trade and tried my hand at driving those big trucks all over America. Had a load out of southern Idaho going back to the east coast, and saw on my Atlas that I could pick up I-90 at Bozeman by simply going north by east, through West Yellowstone. Came down into the Gallatin valley on 191, through the Gallatin canyon, and knew at that moment that this is where I wanted to end up. Everything between the Cathedral Group of the Grand Tetons in NW Wyoming all the way up to Glacier National Park on the Canadian border, and certainly behond, is my kind of country.

I'm a dude who grew up in the South, starting off in Arkansas, moving to Tennessee, then finally moving to northeast Georgia. My formative years, (if they ever ended, lol!), were in cotton-field and riceland-flat environs which left my imagination relatively flat and uninspired. As a teenanger, my folks took us down to Florida, and by the time I was about to graduate highschool in Memphis, I got to go to southern California. I learned in Florida and California that the ocean is a place for me, a filling and satisfying example of vastness which ever reminds me of my smallness and insignificance. These mountains out here do the same thing, and my only lament is that California got itself too over-populated, so that I can't enjoy going there anymore, which means I can't have both the sea-side AND snow-capped mountains for my daily inspiration. But for all those people in southern California, I'd have chosen to live my remaining years at Crestline or Blue Jay, up near Lake Arrowhead and Big Bear in the San Bernardino mountains, where I'd be only an hour away from the beaches AND have the regal splendor of the mountains.

Montana has no sea-shore, which I lament mildly, for part of my soul is ever drawn to the sea, but she makes up for it by having an assortment of very impressive wildlife and rugged challenges which remind me of my place in Nature. And, perhaps equally as desireable, the people up here, in part owing I'm sure to the seasons' vehemence and commanding exaggerations, are a hardy folk who keep their noses to life's moral field of existence, knowing why they grow their crops and raise their herds and log and mine and hunt and fish and dance like fools on Saturday nights in the Saloons, and why they resent some alien governmental power sitting like a drunk clown with a dagger concealed within his costume two thousand miles distant in Washington DC. Here in Montana, any neighbor is a good neighbor. I've been extensively in 49 of the 50 States, saving only Alaska as the last to discover, and to date I find more freedom and human dignity in Montana than I've seen elsewhere.

The way I like to put it when speaking with folks out here is: "I escaped the occupied Confederate States of Georgia and Tennessee, and made it all the way to the Rockies, where I'll make my stand."

And you're right---I'm just a poor sap who has to look at the Tobacco Roots every day, teehee! Dang, but I hate that! Oh Please, Mr. Government Man, puleaze don't chase me up to the mountains!  :rolleyes:

So it occurs to me to note that you yourself are familiar with the Tobacco Roots, which means you must have come through these here parts yerself, yes? I trust you'll come to the GWCII and  take in the view all over again, and get in on some awesome liberty discussion at Three Forks. I'd enjoy meeting you at the north end of the Tobacco Root range, which is where the Sacajawea Hotel stands. As for ladylearning, well, she's promised me faithfully that she'll be here for the GWCII, and I'm holding her to that, lol! Got some very fine friends of liberty I'd like to introduce her to up here.... including the elusive Sunni Maravillosa of the Liberty Round Table and Free-Market.net and the fairy-dust-tossing Iloilo Jones of FIJA. We do believe that Gary Marbut of the Montana Shooting Sports Association will be there, along with.....well, hell, this post has to end somewhere so I'll not get into naming other folks who will be participating in the event, other than to add that a Mental Militia band, The Booze Hounds, will be playing the Sacajawea on Saturday night, the 24th. Good fun and valuable liberty consciousness will be oozing all over the place that weekend in Three Forks. Look forward to seein' ye there too!

Aw, hell.....one more thing before closing this post: I mentioned Gary Marbut of MSSA. Here is a tidy little blast from him as published back in 1998:

~

"In 1994, Gary S. Marbut and the Montana Shooting Sports Association (MSSA) asked their state legislature to introduce a constitutional referendum that would allow a vote on whether to terminate Montana's compact with the United States. [Repeal Art. I of the Montana Constitution.]  The reason: the crime bill's ban on assault weapons. "

"Marbut fumed, 'We have a thirst for freedom in Montana, and we simply will not subsist under the boot heel of federal tyranny.  There may be some debate about what the Second Amendment (the right to bear arms) means to the U.S. Supreme Court...but there is no question about what the Second Amendment means to the people of Montana.' "

~

I kinda think that sums it up nicely about Montana. To add the gracenote to that, however, there is this particular sign on the wall of the Pony Bar at Pony, Montana, (which sits right at the foot of theTobacco Roots)....

"People in other states say that the Constitution protects their right to keep and bear arms; people in Montana say that keeping and bearing arms protects the Constitution."
[paraphrased from memory]

Elias
« Last Edit: March 07, 2004, 03:46:53 pm by Elias Alias »
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ladylearning

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OFFICAL ANNOUNCEMENT: GWC II IS A GO
« Reply #41 on: March 06, 2004, 05:06:29 pm »

Quote
LL,

Are you going to make it to GWC II?

Sounds like Elias lives there.  Poor sap has to look at the Tobacco Roots amoung other mountains every morning...  Sigh....

Regards, Danl
Ahh yes, Danl, I shall indeed be in Three Forks for the GWCll... with my heart full of the mountains, elias, Sunni, Walter Bark, IIoilo the fairy dust princess et al, and all manner of "invisable" things. ;)
My head will be full of "taking liberty" as elias so playfully puts it.
But then no wonder he's playful, he doesn't have 2000 miles to travel and he's got the mountains in his back pocket.    
 :rolleyes:

LL
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RagnarDanneskjold

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OFFICAL ANNOUNCEMENT: GWC II IS A GO
« Reply #42 on: March 07, 2004, 06:22:10 pm »

Elias mused
Quote
You cannot light a bonfire of resolution in a patch of mushrooms, while hiding in the darkened corner of a musty cow barn

Personally, I have tried using fire on mushrooms I found in the darkened corner of a musty cow barn, or out in a cow pasture, generally after drying them out and packing them in a bowl. But I think a much more effective thing to do with them is to brew some wonderful tea and then drink it, hot or iced, add some mint and lemon if you like and sit back and enjoy the view.  ;)  
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ZooT_aLLures

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OFFICAL ANNOUNCEMENT: GWC II IS A GO
« Reply #43 on: March 08, 2004, 12:07:34 am »

Ah Elias*grinning*

Your cut,copy, and paste job struck through to my very soul.
And yes I believe that that's just the ticket needed to get a project going.......

There's also been mention of allying with a few western Canadian provinces that have been getting sucked dry by their socialist government as well.
Given this I'd say that the door to that international border is about two shades short of being wide open for both travel and trade outside of the current system, and certainly any new nation does need trading partners as soon as it's feet hit the ground.
A international "back door" in and out through 600 miles of nothing serves multiple other purposes as well.....which I need not discuss, particularly in a "worst case" scenario.
I have this feeling that the western project is deliberately not focusing on one state but instead on three so as to maximize this succession, and in turn both real estate, and natural resources as well.....any new nation must be self supporting when it's feet hit the ground.......

And last but not least, one must consider the age of each area, and that it wasn't that long ago at that people were leaving such places as the eastern and midwestern states to get away from it's settled in culture and cliques and going to such places as Montana and Wyoming, so they could live their lives as they saw fit..........not that long ago at all........in some cases within the last four generations.......

People don't become domesticated overnight, they become domesticated over the span of multiple generations, only through comfort and a sense of security in their present surroundings do they become tame, docile, and complacent.

That comes through wealth, and with that wealth comes a willingness to comply in order to retain that wealth.(which I suspect you know a bit about, which binds one to existing conditions, location, and system)
How many millionaires and billionaires want to be free of the system that allowed or in some cases even helped them make those millions or billions?

We'll see where this post goes, as there's much more than what meets the eye here......much more indeed......
 
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Even some cowboy and indian outlaws in the 1800's eventually stopped sleeping under buffalo skins, and came to town to entertain paying customers. For some I imagine the bruising of their ego never healed.

We all have some scar tissue that never lets us completely forget the intent of the adventure.

Elias Alias

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OFFICAL ANNOUNCEMENT: GWC II IS A GO
« Reply #44 on: March 09, 2004, 10:13:20 am »

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Personally, I have tried using fire on mushrooms I found in the darkened corner of a musty cow barn, or out in a cow pasture, generally after drying them out and packing them in a bowl. But I think a much more effective thing to do with them is to brew some wonderful tea and then drink it, hot or iced, add some mint and lemon if you like and sit back and enjoy the view.  ;)
Hehehe.... Ragnar, you're a man after my own heart.

 :D  
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"Heirs to self-knowledge shed gently their fears..."
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