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Author Topic: Claire's Blog Wed, 2-11-04  (Read 3981 times)

Delos

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Claire's Blog Wed, 2-11-04
« on: February 11, 2004, 01:18:11 pm »


Great Diogenes banner!

Actually, I think lentils aren't that bad, a view seemingly shared by Diogenes!

. . . and good on that Dave(?) Gross dude, too!

Damn, sometimes I almost get encouraged that individual liberty and morality have a chance against modern full-throttle totalitarianism!

Sometimes.

Thanks, Claire.  
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Claire

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Claire's Blog Wed, 2-11-04
« Reply #1 on: February 11, 2004, 02:06:50 pm »

Thank YOU, Delos.

And thank Dave Gross, going out there into the unknown. That guy inspires me. And there he lives, right in San Francisco, where his life must be especially hard.

There are days when tyranny seems impossible to overcome. Other days it just seems so obvious that sensible, principled people will eventually just stubborn-cuss their way back to freedom.

Claire


 
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Just as the flattery of friends often leads us astray, so the insults of enemies often do us good. -- St. Augustine, Confessions, Book IX, Chapter 8


When faith ceases to be a challenge to the standards of polite society, it is no longer, or has not yet become, faith. -- Donald Spoto, Reluctant Saint:  The Life of Francis of Assisi


My life is my message. -- Gandhi

kbarrett

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Claire's Blog Wed, 2-11-04
« Reply #2 on: February 11, 2004, 05:30:03 pm »

And thank you for the comment that we should be walking our talk ......

All the nit-picking about what constitutes politically correct anarcho-capitalist-ZIF-libertarian-Randroid-syndicalist thinking isn't anywhere near as valuable as a single act of disobedience.

I wonder what brand of nelspot paint balls are best for camera lenses.....

 
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The psychology of “Projection”:  If you want to run people’s lives for them, then you will probably assume that any armed person wants to do the same to you. Scratch a victim-disarmament supporter, and you will always discover a fear-ridden control-freak.

enemyofthestate

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Claire's Blog Wed, 2-11-04
« Reply #3 on: February 11, 2004, 07:35:58 pm »

Quote
I wonder what brand of nelspot paint balls are best for camera lenses.....
I've heard that CB caps are very debilitating to cameras and traffic lights.  That's what I've heard....

From a long barreled rifle they are pretty quiet.  I use an old Norinco bolt action to shoot crows and other vermin with and even without any suppression they are, IMO, quieter than the high velocity pellet rifle my neighbor uses.
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Mystical man values human life.  Rational man values the ability to value human life.
--Stephen Carville

Atheist   n.   A person to be pitied in that he is unable to believe things for which there is no evidence, and who has thus deprived himself of a convenient means of feeling superior to others
-- Chaz Bufe, The American Heretics Dictionary

Misfit

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Claire's Blog Wed, 2-11-04
« Reply #4 on: February 11, 2004, 09:29:02 pm »

This exact issue has been haunting me for quite a while now...I wrote a big long e-mail to my closest friend about a week ago on this and have yet to hear anything from her in response (I'm beginning to wonder if she's decided I've lost it).
I have a gut, moral issue with funding the government's exploits...but being a person of faith, I've been torn as to what I'm supposed to do. I read I'm supposed to defend the weak and poor, but I'm supposed to obey the rulers of the land. Obviously, all bets are off if the ruler is "evil", but as I see it, things have been "evil" for quite a while now...if so, how is it that I seem to be in a minority of those of faith who want to defend the weak and poor rather than let the rulers run wild with our money? I know where everybody here stands on it and my gut instinct agrees, but I keep wondering how come I don't see people of faith resisting taxes in droves. Are they too comfortable, too scared, too uninformed? Or am I missing something?  

Tribeless

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Claire's Blog Wed, 2-11-04
« Reply #5 on: February 12, 2004, 03:06:22 am »

mmm. Just read the Blog ... its very very good.

It's great to be pulled back to a 'real' world where freedom may be possible without having to shoot ninety percent of the population (before having the turn the moral gun on myself). Which is sometimes where my own rhetoric tends to deliver me.

:)

Thanks Claire.
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David

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Claire's Blog Wed, 2-11-04
« Reply #6 on: February 12, 2004, 03:37:24 am »

Quote
This exact issue has been haunting me for quite a while now...I wrote a big long e-mail to my closest friend about a week ago on this and have yet to hear anything from her in response (I'm beginning to wonder if she's decided I've lost it).
I have a gut, moral issue with funding the government's exploits...but being a person of faith, I've been torn as to what I'm supposed to do. I read I'm supposed to defend the weak and poor, but I'm supposed to obey the rulers of the land. Obviously, all bets are off if the ruler is "evil", but as I see it, things have been "evil" for quite a while now...if so, how is it that I seem to be in a minority of those of faith who want to defend the weak and poor rather than let the rulers run wild with our money? I know where everybody here stands on it and my gut instinct agrees, but I keep wondering how come I don't see people of faith resisting taxes in droves. Are they too comfortable, too scared, too uninformed? Or am I missing something?
Quote

Probably all of the above,
Personally I am an atheist, so I may not be the one you want answering this, but...
I have met people of faith who swear that republicans are the second coming, I have also met very devout people of faith who swear that republicans are the anti-Christ, I doubt that either is very true, I suspect rather that the problem may be in folks who seek to make earth paradise, and believe that some person, or political system will deliver, it.
 
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Jac

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Claire's Blog Wed, 2-11-04
« Reply #7 on: February 12, 2004, 09:20:39 am »

Read Revelations, Misfit...

Quote
Are they too comfortable, too scared, too uninformed?
I think it's different for every one, but one thing they have in common is that they are malleable; very few people have the courage to stand by their convictions regardless of the cost. That (sadly) includes religious people. :(  
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I have never regretted that I chose to "take the red pill." But there are days, just rarely, when the truth is so ugly, so brutal, so unmerciful, so relentless, that even if I wouldn't rip the truth from the wall socket and hurl it out the window to crash on the sidewalk below, I wouldn't mind if it featured a snooze button so we could savor just a few more moments in slumbered pretension and warm, fuzzy lies pulled snugly up over our heads.
--PSM

Misfit

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Claire's Blog Wed, 2-11-04
« Reply #8 on: February 12, 2004, 10:07:05 am »

Standing by my convictions is something I do really well, I guess many would call that a flaw...
I did some more reading online last night about all the nonsense that's been perpetrated abroad in recent times in the name of protecting the US. I can't continue to let my taxes go toward this carnage. I had no knowledge that about 50% (maybe more) of my federal taxes are being funneled to fund the military. They make the budget look like it's 18% (still too much), but then they put the rest of the money under those "Misc." and "Other" categories. They desensitize the soldiers and tell them to shoot at anything that moves...and they do. And if you ask the grunts what they're doing there it's revenge for 9/11...which there has never been any connection made...nor any WMD found..."Opps! Our bad, sorry about that. Oh, look, Iran has WMD...let go get 'em boys!" How fricking stupid are the American people? Are they really this blind, or are they just turning a blind eye? When you talk to people about this they just look at you like you've lost your mind...I guess the propaganda machine is just that good...

Yeah, Jac, I know Revelation...but I hate to draw conclusions that we're in the "End Times." I'm not an Evangelical (anymore) and am not sure that I'm sold on that interpretation...I'm sure WWII seemed like the end too, and we're still here...for now... :blink:  

Moorlock

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Claire's Blog Wed, 2-11-04
« Reply #9 on: February 15, 2004, 10:33:49 pm »

Quote
"And thank Dave Gross, going out there into the unknown. That guy inspires me. And there he lives, right in San Francisco, where his life must be especially hard."

For the record - my life is far from hard.  I'm living large, and my life has become more fun and more full and more interesting since I quit work and became a tax resister.  The two greatest secrets about my variety of tax resistance are 1) it's not all that difficult and doesn't require a life of poverty, and 2) lots and lots of people already pay no federal income tax.

I'm not doing the martyr thing and I'm not suffering - it's actually kind of embarrassing how good a time I'm having with this.  I've got all sorts of free time, I eat like a king, I'm devoting myself to interesting activities and good times...  If you have this picture of me jumping on the hand-grenade to sacrifice myself for my fellow freedom-lovers, you've got the wrong idea.

I challenge you to look up the stats for what percentage of people in the U.S. pay federal income tax (because if I tell you you probably won't believe me).  You'll probably find stats on line for the % of people who file returns and end up owing nothing for the year or less than nothing (due to refundable credits like EITC).  That number is surprising enough, but also see if you can find the % of potential taxpayers (i.e. people who aren't dependents on other folks' returns) who pay taxes.  If you're stumped by google, I've covered this topic at The Picket Line and you can follow links from there.  (I'm not talking about people who end up owing extra at the end of the year because they haven't paid enough - but the total amount collected by the government in federal income tax over the course of the year)
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David Gross
The Picket Line - http://www.sniggle.net/TPL/

Bear

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Claire's Blog Wed, 2-11-04
« Reply #10 on: February 15, 2004, 11:11:19 pm »

Misfit,

My hunch as to why the religious don't resist paying taxes, I'd rank the causes like this:

1. Ignorance of where the money goes.
2. A need to comform and belong.
3. Denial that the government can be as evil as it is.
4. Fear.

Bear
 
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"There is no good idea so perfect, so pure,
that Government can't do it badly."
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Misfit

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Claire's Blog Wed, 2-11-04
« Reply #11 on: February 15, 2004, 11:24:02 pm »

Hey Dave! Welcome!
I've just been over reading your blog for a couple hours this afternoon...got up to October 2003 thus far...it's good to see that you haven't starved or gotten hauled off by the Feds on some technicality they've created just for you...(given that you're publically promoting your "experiment").
My spouse and I are giving much consideration to doing the same thing. I'm playing with numbers to see how much we can squeeze our monthly budget needs down. It's probably already insanely low compared to most Americans (we recently paid off all our debts...yeehaw!), but I'm sure we can crank it down low enough to live comfortably below the tax level. We're going to be building our own house and need to have as much of our funds as possible to go toward that. Won't be easy, but will definitely be worth it.
Hope you'll stop by frequently, Claire's board is lively and filled with a lot of neat folks...

Misfit

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Claire's Blog Wed, 2-11-04
« Reply #12 on: February 15, 2004, 11:37:54 pm »

Bear,

You're right. I can go further here...
I just had a lengthy IM conversation with my closest friend back home, who also has been kind of a spiritual mentor to me for the past several years...
I think part of it is the "boomer" mentality, she's 11 years older than me and we've not seen eye-to-eye on things like this before...but part of it is that there are a lot of direct Biblical commands to obey rulers and pay taxes, period. There's no exceptions written in until the govt specifically commands the citizen to directly disobey God's law. My friend doesn't think the govt is "totally evil", just partly evil, and she's not being told to kill anyone, so she doesn't think it's reached a point of resistance being acceptable. Of course, I think she is uninformed, or in some denial, but that's where she stands. Meanwhile, I do see that other groups, like Mennonites, do advocate tax resistance...it's just not very publicized...so, it seems that people of faith are coming down on both sides of the issue. We'll see what happens as time progresses....

ZooT_aLLures

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Claire's Blog Wed, 2-11-04
« Reply #13 on: February 16, 2004, 01:30:40 pm »

Misfit,
Quote
I keep wondering how come I don't see people of faith resisting taxes in droves. Are they too comfortable, too scared, too uninformed? Or am I missing something?

Who's to say they're not resisting, and it's just not being reported?

If indeed you ran things and you knew you were "losing it", would you televise the fact that half the nation was resisting your "leadership" or instead would you not say ONE WORD about it, lest others find that they're not alone in their thoughts, and that their cause has a chance?
The revolution will not be televised......

And as far as peoples thoughts about Iraq goes, and their denial of what's going on there now, can you expect an obedient sheeple to admit that they swallowed the big lie balz deep, and that they in their hearts gave permission to murder people on the other side of the planet?
Oh no.........that would make them co conspirators in a mass murder scheme......
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Even some cowboy and indian outlaws in the 1800's eventually stopped sleeping under buffalo skins, and came to town to entertain paying customers. For some I imagine the bruising of their ego never healed.

We all have some scar tissue that never lets us completely forget the intent of the adventure.

Misfit

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Claire's Blog Wed, 2-11-04
« Reply #14 on: February 18, 2004, 10:03:12 pm »

Quote
Who's to say they're not resisting, and it's just not being reported?

Zoot,

That's exactly what I'm gathering is going on. The people who are resisting aren't shouting it from the hilltops (probably for safety's sake) and it certainly isn't going to be made widely known in the media because, as you said, it would probably inspire others to join in the "rebellion".

Iraq...I still don't see the connection that they tried to make between 9/11 and Iraq, or Afghanistan for that matter. Even if they were directly involved, which they probably weren't, we've more than taken our "revenge"...our troops have killed many times over the number of citizens we lost. On top of that they talk of "dirty bombs" possibly being set off here by terrorists when we're already dropping "dirty bombs" (depleted uranium) on them.
Wait, wait....I'm getting confused....which side are the terrorists again??? :huh:  
 
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