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Author Topic: Moles  (Read 19750 times)

lewlew

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Re: Moles
« Reply #45 on: October 04, 2005, 03:47:27 pm »

DrillSgtK said: 
Quote
Another way to decide to be a mole is to become an expert in the system your in. I have an acquaintance who works for the EPA's research department and her husband works for National Public Health's Bio-Hazard Response department.  She has limited dealings with the rest of the EPA, but has learned who is the real powers behind the screens, keeps an ear out for gossip, copies any non-classifyed email/memos, is learning exactly how different departments work and what they really do.  This is not because she is a mole, but because she is naturally noise. But a real mole who did the same thing could be an invaluable tool for any any resistance. Her husband is just smart and knows a lot about Bio-Hazards and how the Government might respond to one. These are people I take an extra effort to stay in contact with. (It helps that they are generally nice, all though she is a bit nosie.)

This is kind of off the thread topic, but after reading Claire's blog today and reading the MSM articles about the bio-hazard finds in DC on the day of the anti-war march, along with the birdflu/military articles in two threads, that having a mole in this area would be invaluable.
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DrillSgtK

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Re: Moles
« Reply #46 on: April 07, 2006, 08:47:14 pm »

had a nice mole time at traffic court today. (double fun as my commander had to give me a pass to go) I was ticketed for "running a red light" but the light was a blinking red light and I came to a full stop before going through. the Not so nice teenager cop (he looked 18, I'm sure he started shaving in training) said he was right behind me and he never saw me touch my breaks.

So off to court. Got there early, went to the door that people were going in an out of, walked in and saw a guard checking id's. I pulled out my Army ID and flashed it as I walked by. The guard gave me a strange look, shrugged and "checked" the next persons ID.  Got through the second door and found myself in an office area. So I asked one of the cube people where the traffic court was.

"You don't work here?" was the reply. I responded with "it's OK, I'm with the army, the guard let me in."  So he calmed down and directed me to the traffic court...though his office space. At the other end of the space was the break room. Since I had an hour or so before court i helped myself to the "Friday donuts, please donate for next week" food. In the room was a "Give us your BRIGHT ideas" box and forms. So I filled a few out complaining about how hard it was to get work done with all the security checks to get in.

After the free donuts I took a few more for court and went up the elevator to the third floor. At the second the door opened and i saw where non-special people came in. Metal detectors, x-rays, big guards with latex gloves, and long lines of downtrodden people. I noted this elevator was roped off from the others. My elevator opened out in the hall behind the court room. I resisted the temptation to push my luck and stop by the judges office just down the hall and instead went in though a door by what turned out to be the court reporters desk.

I introduced myself to the reporter, his name is Sam, and asked what was on the plate for today. He told me. I asked when my case was, not till 20 or so into the session. (it was a minor infraction so all the DUI's and such went first.) I asked if I could just sit behind him in the nice chairs, and he said he did not care.  Other people came in and sat on benches while a select few nice dressed people with briefcase's came in and sat next to me. Got to talking with a nice lawyer about his case while we waited for the judge. the clerk passed down a clipboard asking for case names for who we in the nice seats were here for.

The judge arrived 5 min early. I like that myself, made me feel good. All the pomp of traffic court went on.  the Judge asked anyone pleading guilty to go line up at the clerks desk. then started calling names from the clipboard. When it was my turn i was asked if my client was here. "I am the client sir." I was told I should no better than to run a red light. I said I did not and asked if I could explained. Was told to, I did, and the judge said he knew the light i was talking about and threw out the ticket. the cop asked if he could say something, judge said sure. "If i had known he was a lawyer I would not have given him a ticket." I jumped in and gave a quick and loud statement about "how everyone is equal in the eyes of the law and these fine citizens (pointing to the line) expect you to ticket anyone, Even the Judge! " the judge said it was nice to hear such honesty. He then asked what lawfirm I was with. "I'm not a lawyer, I'm an enlisted solder, I just came in the wrong door it seems."

Boy did that cop get red in the face, and the judge broke out laughing. "Have a nice day Sergent". I went out the real peoples door.

Drill Sgt K.
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Lightning

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Re: Moles
« Reply #47 on: April 08, 2006, 07:07:04 pm »

 :sign10:

 :notworthy:
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Junker

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Re: Moles
« Reply #48 on: April 09, 2006, 07:52:05 am »

Good show, Drill.

"A land of Law, not men."  :sign10:
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Rarick

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Re: Moles
« Reply #49 on: July 28, 2006, 01:16:12 pm »

Security huh?   :sign10:   I did similar when I was still active, it is kind of fun.  You do have to have some rank on the sleeve of collar tho'
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badmuggafugga

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Re: Moles
« Reply #50 on: August 06, 2006, 05:08:42 am »

Quote
had a nice mole time at traffic court today . . . the judge broke out laughing. "Have a nice day Sergent". I went out the real peoples door.

Bwahahahahahaha!   That's the best freedom anecdote I've heard in along time, Sarge! 

Lemme know if you need some true religion freedom tracts to leave around the the laundry machines, it'd make me feel I'm pulling my weight better than mailing baby wipes to some dead end desert APO.
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Pessimist

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Re: Moles
« Reply #51 on: August 13, 2006, 07:08:09 pm »

This is my first post, so please bear with me.  This seems to be as good a thread to jump in on as any.

I think there are a lot of us "moles."  We do our work, pay our taxes, live quietly and do our best to stay out of shootouts, hijackings, etc.  How do I actively disrupt the "system"?  I don't.  But I also don't do anything to make it work, either.  My business life is set up so as to pay the least taxes possible and have the fewest rules and regulations to follow.

The main thing I think a person should do is drop out emotionally and mentally.  Stop thinking inside the box.  It's their box, but it isn't real.  Push against the inside surface, and you'll see that there's nothing there.

In the spirit of non-cooperation, you should do things that are legal, but which "they" don't want you to do: buy guns; buy gold and silver; prepare, seriously, for disasters and emergencies (and I don't mean those silly 3 day preparations they're always talking about); smoke if you like to smoke; and in general be as non-PC as you can.  Pull their chains.  They really don't like that.

This part probably should be in another thread, but anyway - it is entirely possible in most states, including California, to legally buy guns without any government reporting or permission at all.  Buy "black powder" guns.  They're slow to reload, but a pair of 1851 Navy revolvers will give you quite a bit of effectiveness.  They were all Wild Bill needed.  A modern inline muzzle-loading rifle is VERY powerful and can be reloaded in about 20 seconds, if you're in a hurry.  Of course, modern guns are best, and those are what you should concentrate on, but it isn't a bad idea to have some non-traceable guns for after they do their gun confiscations.  And you can get cartridge conversion cylinders for many black powder revolvers that allow you to fire cartrdges in them - all without any paperwork.  I'd avoid the Italian repros for that - go for a Ruger Old Army.  They're much better guns.

As for helping the police in a shootout - no way.  I know some police officers, and they're fine fellows - when they're not on the job.  But I have learned over the years that the police are NOT your friends.  You can't trust them, and there's no point in helping them, either.  They're as likely to charge you with something afterwards as they are to thank you.

Well, I guess that's enough for now.
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Lightning

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Re: Moles
« Reply #52 on: August 14, 2006, 07:21:10 am »

Welcome, Pessimist.   :mellow:  Glad you joined us - I like your attitude.
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Docliberty

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Re: Moles
« Reply #53 on: August 14, 2006, 04:02:33 pm »

After reading Sarges court tale, I feel compelled to tell one of my own. 

It seems a little over twenty years ago while going to school in Davenport Iowa, that the good city fathers decided to harrass assist the good citizens by placing "resident parking only" zones around all three colleges.  It just so happened that shortly after I moved into one of these zones and bought an old beater of a car licensed to that address.  One day I look out and notice the meter bitch maid writing my car a ticket.  I immediately go out and ask her why she is writing me a ticket when I live here.  She tells ma that I don't have a permit. (gasp, horrors!!!)  I point out that the car is registered to this address and all she has to do is run the plate to find that out.  She tells me she doesn't have time to do that and hands me the ticket.  This is repeated several more times usually without my involvement, until that fateful day when they request my presence in court to explain to me the error of my ways.

Now I hadn't been idle during this time.  I had obtained a copy of the statute and noted that it very specifically stated that residents "may purchase a permit".  It very specifically did not state that a permit was required to park in the resident only zone.  So here I go to court.  Just me and my copy of the ordinance.  Mr junior city attorney meets me outside the court room with the meter maid in tow and asks me if I want to proceed.  You see he has the meter maid here and she will testify that I was parked there on each and every occasion.  I explain to him that of course I was parked there, I live there.  I then point oput that the ordinence does not require anyone to purchase a permit and that if the meter maid had just ataken the time to check my license plates that she would have known that I belonged there.

After he picked up the various body parts that had fallen off (jaw, eyeballs, testicles, etc.) he runs off with the meter maid still in tow.  My court time comes and goes and no one comes to get me.  The court room is closed BTW.  After about a half an hour, I go back toward the judges chambers to see what is happening.  I find the meter maid in the jury room desperately thumbing through a book of city ordinances and mr junior city attorney chatting up the judge.

A little more time goes by and they get me to get started.  After the formalities, mr junior city attorney tries to salvage whatever dignity he can and pleads my side of the case.  The judge is somewhat dumbfounded and has to repeat the facts three or four times to get them straight.  He asks me the same questions repeatedly to which he gets the same answers.  The bottom line is that the judge states taht he has to fine me something, so he will forgive all the tickets and charge me the $15.00 court costs.  I figure that I am money ahead as I had at least $20.00 worth of entertainment out of this little affair.  When I got to the clerks office, they inform me that state law forbids them from collecting costs only on parking tickets and "the judge know this".  I was free to go without a penny from my pocket.

 :ph34r:
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Rarick

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Re: Moles
« Reply #54 on: August 15, 2006, 02:00:04 pm »

There are a lot of points you can make with a little knowledge.  The meter maid has probably been directed to check home of record on the license plates before writing tickets like you suggested.  That is one thing I noticed in the service, and tried to avoid, is the way bureaucrats of a certain type are to lazy to check the info they already have, (regardless of if they should have it, or not) and inconvenience someone for that.  I had a form whenevr I fixed something on the plane when I was in the service, on the same computer system that supply used.  Everyweek I would get a request/ demand for a report on information of stuff I did on those planes.  I kept on writing on the message/memo "check conversation N205- Weekly IMA report for usage of (what I was being asked to report)"  after about 4 of these I was called into the CWO's office where another Sgt IMA type was. (bureaucrat probability 30% with freshly starched BDU's and spit shine.....)  The CWO asked a few questions, I gave some answers and showed what my reply meant by showing wht blocks on the VIDSMAF showed the information, and what report on the computer showed the information.  There was a disagreement about "format" (My CWO did NOT BUY that as a legitamate problem). I was dismissed and we nevr saw that report again, for 2 years.  We killed it again with another new functionary.  From what I understand two colonels had to have a discussion with my CWO and the other guys Capt. to iron it out BOTH times. 

It just shows that you must always pay attention because human nature is smart, not hard.  In an effort to "work smarter" it some times serves to shift the work elsewhere and impinge on the liberty of another.  That creep is what happens in government. It is well intentioned effort to be efficient, or an effort to be lazy and shift the work somewhere else.

Some times it takes a Pointer to a rule to get things back where they should be, and triggering the right proceedures to fix the problem.  Bureaucrats are strange little programmed scraps of humanity, and you have to trigger the right program.
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Most of the time news is about the same old violations of the first principles of consent and golden rule with a dash of force thrown in........ with just enough duct tape to be believable.

Roy J. Tellason

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Re: Moles
« Reply #55 on: August 16, 2006, 12:41:33 am »

That is one thing I noticed in the service, and tried to avoid, is the way bureaucrats of a certain type are to lazy to check the info they already have, (regardless of if they should have it, or not) and inconvenience someone for that.  I had a form whenevr I fixed something on the plane when I was in the service, on the same computer system that supply used.  Everyweek I would get a request/ demand for a report on information of stuff I did on those planes.  I kept on writing on the message/memo "check conversation N205- Weekly IMA report for usage of (what I was being asked to report)"

Quote
It just shows that you must always pay attention because human nature is smart, not hard.  In an effort to "work smarter" it some times serves to shift the work elsewhere and impinge on the liberty of another.  That creep is what happens in government. It is well intentioned effort to be efficient, or an effort to be lazy and shift the work somewhere else.

This ain't just government,  either.  I'll give a couple of examples...

First one is that from time to time I'll forward a copy of an email that I get on one of the many yahoo groups I subscribe to,  forwarding it to their "mail abuse" address,  usually for some spammer or similar.  And then right after I do that I immediately delete the offending post from my system.  And from time to time I'll get a form letter back (usually in those really egregious cases where apparently a lot of folks had complained) saying that they took some kind of action but they weren't gonna tell me what (like I care).  Sometimes,  though,  like today,  I get a different form letter -- which says that because what I forwarded to them (and this doesn't seem to matter if it's "inline" or "attached",  same damn info either way) lacks certain specific headers and that they can't move forward with dealing with things until I supply them with that information.

Never mind that I've already deleted the post from my system,  which has resources no doubt somewhat less than what yahoo has on hand.

Never mind that they still have the bloody post on _their_ system!

So today I took a different tack.  Getting somewhat irritated at this bullshit,  I wrote to them that they should have that info since the post in question was no doubt still present on their system,  and how I was getting tired of people on their end who were trying to get me to do their job for them.  And how the next time this happened,  I was going to invoice them $50.00 for the privilege of using up some of my time.  And how them doing such a thing again would constitute acceptance of these terms.

We shall see what happens from here.  :-)

The other example of shifting stuff off on others is an automated phone call I got a while back from some outfit trying to do collections.  Only the person that they were trying to reach doesn't live here.  And the machine recited some absurdly long "file number" that I was supposed to have a pen ready to write down so I could do their bloody job for them when a person finally did get on the line.

Normally I hang up on machines,  I don't take calls from machines at all.  But in this case I made an exception,  since it did give me the opportunity to get a person on the line.  And I told that person that they needed to take my phone number out of their system.  She started in about the "file number",  and I told her that I didn't bother with the silly thing,  that it wasn't my problem,  but _their_ problem,  and it was gonna get a lot bigger in short order if they didn't do something about it.  And at first she started  giving me some kind of BS about how she couldn't do anything,  but when I mentioned contacting my attorney things changed real quick and it seemed that all I really had to do was give them the phone number that the machine called,  and that was the end of that.

I'm also fighting a similar battle with verizon.  ("We're the phone company.  We don't care.  We don't have to...")  It seems that they want me to call their call center on the phone.  Only that wastes my time by a machine that wants me to talk to it (which I refuse to do) and then waiting on hold,  etc. and then going around and around with people telling me things I already know but not dealing with the issue at hand here.  And it's assuming,  all of it,  that my time is worth nothing!  Which I find tremendously insulting.  It may not cost them anything,  but that's not at all the same thing.  And they have the usual corporate platitude crap in the emails they send (which are very quick and easy for me to deal with on my terms) and my response to that is very often something like "Prove it!".

No,  it ain't just bureaucrats,  and it ain't just goobermint folks,  it's BigCorp and BigGov both.  And I'm mad as hell about it and I'm not gonna take it any more!

:-)
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Rarick

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Re: Moles
« Reply #56 on: August 16, 2006, 07:58:25 am »

  I said bureaucrats because every sizable organization has them.  They just naturally concentrate the most around governments, and give the government hardening of the arteries and a level of senility.  I would not be the least disappointed if an asteroid hit washington while congress was in combined session to hear a speech from the president.  Special election time to reform Govt when most of the special interests are also crippled.  That would be rather interesting.
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Most of the time news is about the same old violations of the first principles of consent and golden rule with a dash of force thrown in........ with just enough duct tape to be believable.

kevinbenko

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Re: Moles
« Reply #57 on: September 05, 2006, 10:25:43 pm »

I'm not too certain of how to categorize this, but a few years ago, I noted that behaving in a non-expected way puts people ill at ease:

mid/late 1999, I lived in a Pacific Northwest city with a population approaching 100,000.  I needed to drop some paperwork off at the courthouse, and had to go through a metal detector.  At the time, I was carrying one of my ever-present pocket knives because where and when I had grown up... well,,, everyone just carried a pocket knife of some sort, and it was a 30-year old habit that I never really thought about.

Well, the copthug manning the metal detector asked to see my knife, mentioned that the thing was illegal because the blade was too long, and that I wouldn't be permitted in the courthouse with the knife.

Then I just stopped and looked at the guy. I didn't attempt to argue, complain, or offer reasons, excuses, or explanations.  I just stood there and tried to figure out if I was going to get hassled for the illegal blade length, and where I could store the knife for a few minutes without having to walk back home.

I guess that because I wasn't trying to do any of the standard arguing, begging, whinning that the copthug was used to hearing place the guy in some uncharted mental territory, because it certainly was't any charismatic powers on my part.  The cop just returned the knife to me and wished me a good day, and I walked into the courthouse and dropped off the paperwork with no further hassles.

I'm still not sure why/how the cop returned my knife.
Was this one of those rare honest cops, or did I just freak the guy out by not behaving in the proper sheeplike manner?
WTF?
« Last Edit: September 05, 2006, 10:31:20 pm by The Graduate Student »
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Rarick

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Re: Moles
« Reply #58 on: September 05, 2006, 10:36:56 pm »

You did not slam him with a rant and rudeness.  He thought things thru again based on your calm demenor, and decided "not a threat---Citizen" and trusted the citizen.  Simple really, you do yourself a disservice looking at a uniform and thinking "copthug", it is kind of like looking at skin, Isn't it?
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Most of the time news is about the same old violations of the first principles of consent and golden rule with a dash of force thrown in........ with just enough duct tape to be believable.

Docliberty

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Re: Moles
« Reply #59 on: September 06, 2006, 08:15:03 am »

You did not slam him with a rant and rudeness.  He thought things thru again based on your calm demenor, and decided "not a threat---Citizen" and trusted the citizen.  Simple really, you do yourself a disservice looking at a uniform and thinking "copthug", it is kind of like looking at skin, Isn't it?

Bud, you bring up a great point.  With shows like "Cops" that show one infringement after another and with story after story of police trampling on the rights of citizens, we have to stop and realize that these are people too.  They don't like being hassled any more than we do.  There are more of us than there are of them and they know it.  They know that it would take very little to incite a crowd to turn against them.  This may be the reason for the overkill.  A little basic human respect when one on one could work mimiracles
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"I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, and I won't be laid a hand on.  I don't do these things to other people and I require the same from them."  Marion Morrison

"I do not fear my government.  I fear what my government will cause me to become."   Docliberty

"Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats." H. L. Mencken

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