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Author Topic: Free State Project- Goal or Deadline?  (Read 21946 times)

Kirsten

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Free State Project- Goal or Deadline?
« on: October 21, 2005, 11:36:33 am »

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« Last Edit: February 25, 2007, 10:37:43 am by Kirsten »
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Jeffersoniantoo

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Re: Free State Project- Goal or Deadline?
« Reply #1 on: October 21, 2005, 11:40:32 am »

That documentation no longer exists, unless you printed out the original form ( I did, but I am not sure where it is packed).  They changed the forms on their website.  The agreement I signed up for was 20,000 signed members by September 2006.  I think they realize that they aren't going to make it.  They are also offering an honest opt-out for those of us that signed the earlier agreement. 
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debra

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Re: Free State Project- Goal or Deadline?
« Reply #2 on: October 21, 2005, 11:42:18 am »

It was originally a deadline (5 years from date of implementation, which was -- ironically -- September 2001), with the caveat of if we're *close* (e.g. 19000 members by then), then we'd extend a little longer. As the membership numbers lagged, the deadline became a loose deadline, then a goal, then an artifact as the online documentation was slowly and quietly redacted.

Debra
(FSP Member #23, Former FSP Founding Board Member, Resident Agent, and Treasurer)
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debra

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Re: Free State Project- Goal or Deadline?
« Reply #3 on: October 21, 2005, 11:45:42 am »

Quote
They are also offering an honest opt-out for those of us that signed the earlier agreement.


They originally weren't going to, insisting that there was NEVER a formal deadline. Eventually they conceded to the opt-out after a lot of the Ought-Sixers called them on the carpet about it.
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Ian

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Re: Free State Project- Goal or Deadline?
« Reply #4 on: October 21, 2005, 11:46:36 am »

Yeah, it was a hard deadline of Sept '06 (5 years from the starting date, which was Sept '01). The documentation has been pretty well purged from the web site, though. Here are a couple articles in the archives that mention the deal:

http://www.freestateproject.org/about/essay_archive/ClarkCounty.php
http://www.freestateproject.org/about/essay_archive/Speech_WYLP.php

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We have a definite timeline. If we don't have 20,000 signatures in 5 years (that's September of 2006), we close up shop. So this won't turn into an unattainable pipedream endlessly sucking away the time and resources of our members.
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And Tomlinson took up the tale and spoke of his good in life.
"O this I have read in a book," he said, "and that was told to me,
"And this I have thought that another man thought of a Prince in Muscovy."
The good souls flocked like homing doves and bade him clear the path,
And Peter twirled the jangling Keys in weariness and wrath.
"Ye have read, ye have heard, ye have thought," he said, "and the tale is yet to run:
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Joel

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Re: Free State Project- Goal or Deadline?
« Reply #5 on: October 21, 2005, 12:21:28 pm »

Soooo...what, they've decided that it should turn into an unattainable pipedream endlessly sucking away the time and resources of their members?
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FTL_Ian

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Re: Free State Project- Goal or Deadline?
« Reply #6 on: October 21, 2005, 12:32:02 pm »

Goal or deadline?  It's irrelevant.

The FSP "leadership" is as bureaucratic as the National LP, and have rendered themselves nearly useless.  The only thing the FSP is good for is:

1. A concept worth promoting
2. A tracking mechanism to determine amount of signups

Whether the FSP makes it to 20k doesn't even matter.  We're going regardless of 20k, and so are a lot of other Libery activists.  Many are already there.  As my radio show grows, we'll recruit more and more people who are fed up, and ready to move for Liberty.

If you'd like to see 20k happen sooner rather than later, please help AMP my show at http://amp.freetalklive.com !

Thanks!
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Ian

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Re: Free State Project- Goal or Deadline?
« Reply #7 on: October 21, 2005, 12:43:08 pm »

John, it's more like they've abandoned the idea of ensuring a decent chance at real success before moving. Instead, it's now a typical "if enough people do it, it'll work - so do it now!" plan. Fine for people who don't mind moving to NH and then having the project fizzle, but not good enough for me.

Interestingly, it does sound like it might be making some headway already. My sister goes to school in Vermont. Her boyfriend's family (in NH) has mentioned that they're starting to see FSP members show up on school boards and such...
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And Tomlinson took up the tale and spoke of his good in life.
"O this I have read in a book," he said, "and that was told to me,
"And this I have thought that another man thought of a Prince in Muscovy."
The good souls flocked like homing doves and bade him clear the path,
And Peter twirled the jangling Keys in weariness and wrath.
"Ye have read, ye have heard, ye have thought," he said, "and the tale is yet to run:
"By the worth of the body that once ye had, give answer—what ha' ye done?"

debra

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Re: Free State Project- Goal or Deadline?
« Reply #8 on: October 21, 2005, 01:17:50 pm »

The deadline was originally established based on research of a bunch of past "Freedom Migration" attempts. It's not a new concept -- plenty of people have tried.  In every case, the founders would pick a state (randomly or based on "best chances" as the founders saw it) and then they'd say, "Hey, everyone move here!"  You'd get a few risk-takers who'd jump right  in, but most people -- who are more risk-adverse --  would choose to wait because they didn't want to uproot themselves for something that may or may not work out.  Since everyone was waiting for everyone else,  the project would just sputter to a near-halt.  (I say "near" halt, because technically many  of these projects are still going on, including some that have been going on for decades).

I can't support all of them, so I choose one. Somebody else chooses another. And someone else another. Consequently, the time, money, and resources each of us contribute remain scattered rather than focused, so no one project ever hits that critical mass. FSP didn't want to fall into that same trap, so we created what we believed to be a realistic deadline, where we'd hit X participants by X date. That way, nobody would have to move unless there was a good indicator that they wouldn't be on their own.  If we didn't make it or even come close, it was a pretty good clue that the project -- good idea though it may be -- simply wasn't going to happen, so why continue to waste libertarian resources?

Unfortunately, human nature being what it is, the primary goal of the FSP (IMO)  has changed to first and foremost preserving the organization, which means getting rid of the deadline. (shrug)  Those who don't remember the past ... 

At this point, I don't see a particular reason to support/move to New Hampshire over, say, Sealand, The Republic of Molossia, The Principality of New Pacific, Costa Rica, The Republic of Texas, The Republic of Ganjastan, Wyoming, Freedom Ship City or even the moon.  All of them have virtually the same goals and plans (creating a more-or-less libertarian society), just different locations.
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Kirsten

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Re: Free State Project- Goal or Deadline?
« Reply #9 on: October 21, 2005, 01:20:41 pm »

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« Last Edit: February 25, 2007, 09:49:46 am by Kirsten »
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FTL_Ian

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Re: Free State Project- Goal or Deadline?
« Reply #10 on: October 21, 2005, 01:59:31 pm »

Debra,

Costa Rica has been my backup plan, so thanks for that Limon link, I'd never heard of that.

Until then, I'll be supporting NH.  As long as the jackboots don't cart off me and my four co-hosts, my show will continue to grow.  We'll expand to more stations, and influence more newbies to come to NH.  I don't think any of the other movements you list have a nationally syndicated radio show promoting them.  We're already the number one recruiter for the FSP, with us accounting for 10% of recruits in July and 13% in August.

Those numbers will only increase as we grow this radio show.   :mellow:
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H.M. WoggleBug, T.E.

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Re: Free State Project- Goal or Deadline?
« Reply #11 on: October 21, 2005, 02:28:11 pm »

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They originally weren't going to, insisting that there was NEVER a formal deadline. Eventually they conceded to the opt-out after a lot of the Ought-Sixers called them on the carpet about it.

THAT statement is irrelevant. The fact is that they DID. The reason they did is that members of the board insisted on it. Those that didn't want to acknowledge 9/06 in any manner were voted down. What exactly is wrong with that? The process worked!

Let's call the 9/06 a deadline. It will probably be missed. FSP leadership has modified its position to acknowledge the perception - which DEBRA herself once propagated- is important to those members. People that want that release can go with no ill feelings. What, exactly is the controversy, here?

As for saying that the FSP is now no different than a dozen other efforts going on - that's specious logic at best. But for the sake of argument, let's stipulate that point. Why not leave the FSP alone? Let them do their thing. You do yours.

The FSP is finetuning their idea. You may not like it? Fine, ignore them.

Those people who wish to destroy the FSP - such as Boston T. Party - and mine the membership for their own projects are little more than ghouls. Every time a feeding frenzy takes place in the libertarian community, a few more people get disgusted and rendered incapacitated to do anything. Liberty becomes a little less likely.

All because people hold others to impossible standards, and do not acknowledge reality. I'm not talking pragmatism here; I'm talking modifying tactics and strategies. Nothing at all wrong with that. The FSP is too good an idea, with too much momentum to just piss it all away. Like it or not - it's the most famous libertarian movement in the world today.

The goal of the FSP has always been liberty in our lifetime, as quickly as possible. Yes, they extrapolated from initial intense activity and press coverage that 20,000 signups would occur in five years. Guess what? They were too optimistic. You want them to blow their brains out because of giddy optimism? How were they to know that after the target state vote that the "losers" would attack them so viciously and repeatedly?

And an awful lot of people want to tear the FSP to pieces because Jason Sorens and DEBRA and several others weren't omnicient.

Again, the changes are designed to keep the FSP going. Nobody is making money, here. No careers made here. Just trying to keep the flame alive. WITHOUT compromising principles. The total money flowing into the FSP coffers is miniscule. I would wager that Bureaucrash revenues exceed the FSP!

'Bug
« Last Edit: October 21, 2005, 03:42:41 pm by H.M. WoggleBug, T.E. »
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Jack21221

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Re: Free State Project- Goal or Deadline?
« Reply #12 on: October 21, 2005, 02:35:32 pm »

Thanks for the Freedom Ship link, by the way. I had seen a Discovery Channel special on it a while back, but Freedom Ship has rarely crossed my mind since. Now, going to their website, I see that many of their residential units will be actually quite cheap compared to the millions of dollars some will be worth.
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FTL_Ian

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Re: Free State Project- Goal or Deadline?
« Reply #13 on: October 21, 2005, 03:11:55 pm »

Agreed, Bug.  I know I'm not making any damn money on my show, and we've been on the air for three years!
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kbarrett

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Re: Free State Project- Goal or Deadline?
« Reply #14 on: October 21, 2005, 03:32:51 pm »

The FSP needed to get real. Waiting for 20,000 was hurting their organization.

They resolved the issue correctly. I wish them luck.

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