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Author Topic: Free State Project- Goal or Deadline?  (Read 22452 times)

sorens

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Re: Free State Project- Goal or Deadline?
« Reply #60 on: November 02, 2005, 04:04:08 pm »

Hello Jason, (unless someone has hi-jacked you name)

The participation guidelines were quite clear, as my spouse and I had many a discussion before agreeing to them.  Do you have a counter to this? 

Yes, Jason here... I was quoting that part of the original FAQ. The Wayback Machine also has the original Participation Guidelines:
http://web.archive.org/web/20021002223909/http://www.freestateproject.org/part_guidelines.htm

You'll note that there is no deadline for reaching 20,000 in the Participation Guidelines. There was a deadline for reaching 5,000. The deadline for reaching 20,000 was merely stated in the FAQ, so it wasn't technically a part of the original agreement. Nevertheless, this debate is really moot, because we're letting people opt out anyway, just as if it had been a part of the Participation Guidelines.
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Jeffersoniantoo

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Re: Free State Project- Goal or Deadline?
« Reply #61 on: November 02, 2005, 04:11:49 pm »

Hi Jason,

I couldn't get the link to the paticipation guidelines to work. Thanks for providing a link.   Can you explain the difference between the FAQ reference to the "Participation Guidlines" and the linked set.  While the point is moot, I agree, there seems to be a discrepancy.

Thanks...
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sorens

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Re: Free State Project- Goal or Deadline?
« Reply #62 on: November 02, 2005, 04:19:34 pm »

Hi Jason,

I couldn't get the link to the paticipation guidelines to work. Thanks for providing a link.   Can you explain the difference between the FAQ reference to the "Participation Guidlines" and the linked set.  While the point is moot, I agree, there seems to be a discrepancy.

Thanks...

Maybe this link will work better?

There's no discrepancy between the original FAQ and the original PG. The original PG set a deadline for reaching 5K but none for reaching 20K (except that if 20K were "never" reached, the move would be aborted). The original FAQ noted these two things and then went on to say that we in the FSP leadership still plan to shut this thing down if we're not reasonably close to 20K by the end of 2006. Here's the quote again:

The Participation Guidelines do not specify a requisite time period between reaching 5,000 members and reaching 20,000 members. However, the assumption has always been that if 20,000 is not close at hand within five years of the launch of the Free State Project (officially September 1st, 2001), the Project will fold.
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Jeffersoniantoo

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Re: Free State Project- Goal or Deadline?
« Reply #63 on: November 02, 2005, 04:24:14 pm »

Uh, Jason, I posted the link to the original FAQ along with the text, relevant to this discussion.   THERE IS A DISCREPANCY.  The new link you posted goes to the same place you posed before.

Please provide a counter to:

22Q. What is the time frame for the Free State Project?
22A. The Participation Guidelines state that a signature on the Statement of Intent becomes void if three years pass before we reach 5,000 members and select the state. The Participation Guidelines also state that once we reach 20,000 members, everyone has five years to move to the selected state. The Participation Guidelines do not specify a requisite time period between reaching 5,000 members and reaching 20,000 members. However, the assumption has always been that if 20,000 is not close at hand within five years of the launch of the Free State Project (officially September 1st, 2001), the Project will fold. To get 20,000 signers within five years, we will need approximately 11 new signatures per day on average. In the month of February 2002 we averaged 4 new signatures per day. Once we expand our publicity efforts to print advertising, an average of 11 per day should be well within reach.
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"Written laws are like spiders' webs, and will, like them, only entangle and hold the poor and weak, while the rich and powerful easily break through them."

-- Anacharsis - (Scythian philosopher - 600 B.C.)

sorens

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Re: Free State Project- Goal or Deadline?
« Reply #64 on: November 02, 2005, 04:35:41 pm »

Where is the discrepancy? Are you reading the parts I'm quoting carefully?

* The FAQ says the PG have no deadline for reaching 20K.
* The PG says nothing about a deadline for reaching 20K.
* The FAQ says the PG have a deadline of three years (2004) for reaching 5K.
* The PG says there is a deadline of three years (2004) for reaching 5K.
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DTOM

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Re: Free State Project- Goal or Deadline?
« Reply #65 on: November 02, 2005, 04:38:31 pm »

The words "Free" and "State" should not be said together.


 :puke:
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Jeffersoniantoo

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Re: Free State Project- Goal or Deadline?
« Reply #66 on: November 02, 2005, 04:40:43 pm »

I guess this is the part that is causing the problem...

"However, the assumption has always been that if 20,000 is not close at hand within five years of the launch of the Free State Project (officially September 1st, 2001), the Project will fold."

Jason,  I support the project, just not the manner in which it is currently being conducted...    :mellow:
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"Written laws are like spiders' webs, and will, like them, only entangle and hold the poor and weak, while the rich and powerful easily break through them."

-- Anacharsis - (Scythian philosopher - 600 B.C.)

Steam970

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Re: Free State Project- Goal or Deadline?
« Reply #67 on: November 02, 2005, 04:42:15 pm »

Well once again we show what rugged individuals we are, we don't take it from the MAN and we don't take it from the FSP either. My aren't we independent,thank god we are not gonna let them use up all those vast resources we have.

All that work we were doing whew, boy glad thats over, yep couldn't get 20k in a couple years what losers, what with their huge budget and vast network of  folks working full time on it.


Now we can all go back to getting ready to hang separately.

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atr

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Re: Free State Project- Goal or Deadline?
« Reply #68 on: November 02, 2005, 04:47:36 pm »

Quote
Your memory is wrong. The Statement of Intent has never included any deadline whatsoever. Nor have the Participation Guidelines or organization bylaws.

With all due respect, ATR, you are either simply wrong or are lying...

No, actually the Statement of Intent has never included any deadline, nor have the Participation Guidelines. So when you wrote that you "distinctly remember it being in writing on the "Statement of Intent" that I signed an delivered to the FSP," that is not an accurate characterization of the Statement of Intent that anyone has submitted.
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thistle

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Re: Free State Project- Goal or Deadline?
« Reply #69 on: November 02, 2005, 04:48:26 pm »

Quote
Should the Project never attract 20,000 signers, the move shall be aborted.

Anticipated abort date is was September 2006
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atr

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Re: Free State Project- Goal or Deadline?
« Reply #70 on: November 02, 2005, 04:50:51 pm »

Quote
Should the Project never attract 20,000 signers, the move shall be aborted.

Anticipated abort date is was September 2006

Yes, it was anticipated by some people, including some members of the FSP leadership, but it was never part of the Statement of Intent or Participation Guidelines that constitute the commitment of FSP Participants.
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Kirsten

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Re: Free State Project- Goal or Deadline?
« Reply #71 on: November 02, 2005, 04:51:38 pm »

*
« Last Edit: February 25, 2007, 12:36:19 pm by Kirsten »
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Jeffersoniantoo

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Re: Free State Project- Goal or Deadline?
« Reply #72 on: November 02, 2005, 05:00:15 pm »

ATR, I have posted the links to the FAQs involved, the "Statement of Intent" and Jason has provided a link to the original Participation Guidelines (Thanks again, Jason).  There is clearly a discrepancy about "assumptions".  Now we can all agree that this "contract" was non-binding.  I have been challenged on what I agreed to.  It appears to be a moot point.  However, my honor will not let me accept someone calling me a liar, without defense.  This has become personal, which is something I wished it hadn't done.

If you all want me to vacate, i will.  But I will not concede a single point I have made without irrefutable fact that I am wrong about what was proposed when I signed the FSP agreement.
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"Written laws are like spiders' webs, and will, like them, only entangle and hold the poor and weak, while the rich and powerful easily break through them."

-- Anacharsis - (Scythian philosopher - 600 B.C.)

thistle

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Re: Free State Project- Goal or Deadline?
« Reply #73 on: November 02, 2005, 05:14:35 pm »

Quote
Yes, it was anticipated by some people, including some members of the FSP leadership, but it was never part of the Statement of Intent or Participation Guidelines that constitute the commitment of FSP Participants.

Yes it was part of the committment. In the phrase: "Should the project never attract 20,000 signers".

The point where we would determine whether or not the project would reach 20,000 was September 2006.

Edit: My first choice was NH.
« Last Edit: November 02, 2005, 05:16:49 pm by thistle »
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FTL_Ian

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Re: Free State Project- Goal or Deadline?
« Reply #74 on: November 02, 2005, 05:20:01 pm »

I've never seen so much strife over such a trivial matter!  Can't we all just get along?   :angry:
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