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Author Topic: safe deposit boxes ?  (Read 10577 times)

TryingToBeUseful

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Re: safe deposit boxes ?
« Reply #15 on: February 01, 2006, 02:00:08 am »

It's clear the safest place to hide something is in a place:

A ) with no link to you
B ) with essentially no chance of being disturbed

Thus, to fufill those requirements you choose to bury the goods as deep underground as possible, in an uninhabited rural area where no one will bother it.  Only you know the location of the goods.  Done properly, there is no meaningful chance of it being discovered by happenstance, and essentially no chance of discovering it intentionally either unless you yourself spill the beans.  Even a person or government with the most vicious vendetta against you will not be able to afford to dig up the whole world, or even a whole county, looking for your treasure.  At that point you become the weakest, the one, and the only link to the hiding place.

[I suppose with GPS and encryption and such you could devise a way that even you would not know where the hiding spot was.  Perhaps you bury it, but wander in the wilderness quite a bit and don't pay attention to your surroundings.  You thus only have a very vague idea of where it is.  You do make a note of the immeditate surroundings, i.e. "it's south of a rock" because of GPS's circle of error problem.  But there is no way you'd ever be able to find the spot again.  You carry a GPS device of some sort however, which records and stores the coordinates in a file which can only be unlocked with two passwords.  One password, you know; the other, a partner knows.  Now even if you are captured and tortured by some enemy, you are literally incapable of leading them to the treasure.  The partner likewise.  You would both have to be compromised simultaneously to be able to give up the secret.  One could even encode a self-destruct password in the program/file storing the coordinate, so that if you'd rather have the treasure lost forever than fall into the hands of the feds, you could tell them "OK, OK, I'll put in the password" and then make the choice to wipe it out forever.  All the above is just a silly intellectual excercise and probably not useful for real life, but I thought of it so thought I'd share.  Here, I'll put it in brackets.]

However, burying assets in the wilderness tends towards inconvenience.  It is impossible to make easy electronic withdrawals.  Your employer will be unable to use ACH to automatically deposit your salary into this account.  It would be problematic to pay your bills with such a stash.  You cannot carress and admire your lovely bullion.  So although it's safe, it's inconvenient.  If you anticipate yourself ever having to flee quickly and not get the chance to dig up your treasure, nor to ever return to the area, this may not be the safest method for your particular situation either, despite what I said at first.  So, we should consider how to hide things near to yourself as well.

I think of it like an easter egg hunt.  Just imagine everywhere you would look, and try to one-up yourself.  Hide it somewhere no one would ever, ever look.  For instance, would anyone think to tear open all those macoroni and cheese boxes looking for cash or gold?  I think not.  Even better, following that train of thought, you could carefully remove the label from a can of food, cut it in half, re-solder it, and put back the label.  Or figure some even better way to open and perfectly re-seal a can.  Who is going to open every single one of your canned goods (this is where the food storage thing can help you even more) to hunt for a stash; a stash that you've never even told anyone about and that no one has any reason to believe you have?

And so yes, to re-iterate that last sentence, one of the most important layers of protection and hiddenness to give your stash is the layer of secrecy.  No one will spend a lot of time looking for something if they have no clue it exists.
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Nomad

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Re: safe deposit boxes ?
« Reply #16 on: February 01, 2006, 10:25:51 pm »

It's clear the safest place to hide something is in a place:

A ) with no link to you
B ) with essentially no chance of being disturbed


However, burying assets in the wilderness tends towards inconvenience.  It is impossible to make easy electronic withdrawals.  Your employer will be unable to use ACH to automatically deposit your salary into this account.  It would be problematic to pay your bills with such a stash.  You cannot carress and admire your lovely bullion.  So although it's safe, it's inconvenient.  If you anticipate yourself ever having to flee quickly and not get the chance to dig up your treasure, nor to ever return to the area, this may not be the safest method for your particular situation either, despite what I said at first.  So, we should consider how to hide things near to yourself as well.


Accepting the above points, it would be wise to safekeep items at various levels of accessability vs ultimate concealability. In my opinion, it is idiotic to use bank SDBs for even such items as wills or deeds of trust. But that doesn't means that one must cache everything in some ultra remote, subterranean location.

A traditional, quality safe bolted to the slab of one's home should provide adequate protection for perhaps 33% of one's cash, precious metals and weapons. That subterranean, remote cache might be appropriate for a last ditch, worst case scenario hiding spot for 20% of your most valuable stuff. How about the best storage for that other 47%.....? Think it through. A lot depends upon whether you expect to be a specific target, versus just another sheep in a general sweep. Do you own or rent? Will you have to travel after retrieving your stash? Do you have friends/relatives you can absolutely trust, or not? There are a lot of possibilities. But you will have to be both analytical and creative. Whatever you come up with, do NOT post your best ideas.
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TryingToBeUseful

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Re: safe deposit boxes ?
« Reply #17 on: February 16, 2006, 02:49:29 am »

Joe Blow has posted a nice artivle on The Ultimate Stash at http://www.strike-the-root.com/61/blow/blow8.html .

And he references "can safes", safes disguised to look like Del Monte fruit cans, bean cans, or a variety of other common cans.  Kind of like the idea I was talking about above.  Who knew?  http://www.buyasafe.com/Scripts/prodList.asp?idCategory=50
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Lightning

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Re: safe deposit boxes ?
« Reply #18 on: February 16, 2006, 03:44:58 pm »

And better yet, thanks to Lehmans.com, make your own real cans at home!

Pricey, but the real deal - just reuse some national-brand labels... :ph34r:
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I'm damn well free to dance through life even if 'they' expect me to cringe and crawl.

"Your life is an occasion.  Rise to it."  --Dustin Hoffman as Mr. Magorium, in Mr. Magorium's Wonder Emporium

DTOM

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Re: safe deposit boxes ?
« Reply #19 on: February 16, 2006, 03:56:33 pm »

And better yet, thanks to Lehmans.com, make your own real cans at home!

Pricey, but the real deal - just reuse some national-brand labels... :ph34r:

Now that is a damn good idea. At least until the PTB say you are hoarding food (very selfish and un-Amerikan) and confiscate all your canned goods with silver and gold in them.
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Pagan

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Re: safe deposit boxes ?
« Reply #20 on: February 16, 2006, 04:54:24 pm »

I'd be careful of using cans. Even a thief might take your savings, either intentionally or serendipitously.

Desenex foot powder or Scotch-Gard might be safe enough, but cans labeled with food or other necessities are taking a chance that someone might pick up something valuable on the way out.

In addition the cans should be well padded or only filled with paper valuables, or they will rattle; AND should be fairly heavy to emulate the real item or their weight will be suspect.


Edited to add: Especially is this true when TSHTF. Whether in a permanent home or mobile, we won't be safe from any theft or intrusion. The smaller the item, the easier to steal; whether to use for oneself or to sell elsewhere, every item will be yelling "Here I am, take me."
« Last Edit: February 16, 2006, 05:09:58 pm by Pagan »
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Lightning

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Re: safe deposit boxes ?
« Reply #21 on: February 17, 2006, 09:24:13 am »

Good points, DTOM and Pagan.  Nothing's surefire, unfortunately.  But you can always make your hidey-cans look like cans of food that many people don't care for - beets, for instance?  Liver pate?  ;)

And there are ways to minimize risks, like Pagan's point about making sure a hidey-can FEELS, as well as looks, like a real can of food in the hand.

One nice thing about gold is that it doesn't corrode in water...
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I'm damn well free to dance through life even if 'they' expect me to cringe and crawl.

"Your life is an occasion.  Rise to it."  --Dustin Hoffman as Mr. Magorium, in Mr. Magorium's Wonder Emporium

Bear

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Re: safe deposit boxes ?
« Reply #22 on: February 17, 2006, 10:08:09 am »

The phrase "defense in depth" comes to mind. Maybe it would be a good idea to cache some cash, and some
defensive weapsons where they are easy to grab in a hurry, but moderately well hidden in the home, that can
give you the resources to get to and retrieve the bigger cache hidden somewhere else. Or you might have
multiple remote caches, in case one is discovered, or you are not able to travel in that direction.

Just a thought.

Bear
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Mr. Bill

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Re: safe deposit boxes ?
« Reply #23 on: February 17, 2006, 01:24:33 pm »

I'd be careful of using cans. Even a thief might take your savings, either intentionally or serendipitously.
...The smaller the item, the easier to steal; whether to use for oneself or to sell elsewhere, every item will be yelling "Here I am, take me."

Which suggests hiding stuff in containers that are (1) mundane, (2) large, and (3) apparently contain something of very low value.

Here's a hiding place I used to use (emphasis on the past tense, so don't anybody come searching my house because I am today a good American citizen who uses only official bank safe deposit boxes). I had a big Tupperware container full of rock salt (for an ice cream maker). Valuable items were wrapped and bagged securely, such that they could not rattle, and placed in the very center of the salt. You could not see anything but salt from the outside, and if you picked up the container you would not notice anything unusual.

Of course, if this gets you thinking of any other sorts of hiding spots you might use, be sure to not post them here!
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Pagan

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Re: safe deposit boxes ?
« Reply #24 on: February 17, 2006, 02:10:22 pm »

Mr. Bill:
Quote
Of course, if this gets you thinking of any other sorts of hiding spots you might use, be sure to not post them here!

Well, this might be safe enough to post here for obvious reasons: if you have a dog run or doghouse with storage space attached, how about putting valuables in a large bag of dog food? I don't believe anyone would think (or dare!) to look there. :-)
I've even entertained the idea of hiding a safe under a dog house.
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dr_malaki

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Re: safe deposit boxes ?
« Reply #25 on: February 21, 2006, 11:10:08 pm »

It's clear the safest place to hide something is in a place:

A ) with no link to you
B ) with essentially no chance of being disturbed


However, burying assets in the wilderness tends towards inconvenience.  It is impossible to make easy electronic withdrawals.  Your employer will be unable to use ACH to automatically deposit your salary into this account.  It would be problematic to pay your bills with such a stash.  You cannot carress and admire your lovely bullion.  So although it's safe, it's inconvenient.  If you anticipate yourself ever having to flee quickly and not get the chance to dig up your treasure, nor to ever return to the area, this may not be the safest method for your particular situation either, despite what I said at first.  So, we should consider how to hide things near to yourself as well.


Accepting the above points, it would be wise to safekeep items at various levels of accessability vs ultimate concealability. In my opinion, it is idiotic to use bank SDBs for even such items as wills or deeds of trust. But that doesn't means that one must cache everything in some ultra remote, subterranean location.

A traditional, quality safe bolted to the slab of one's home should provide adequate protection for perhaps 33% of one's cash, precious metals and weapons. That subterranean, remote cache might be appropriate for a last ditch, worst case scenario hiding spot for 20% of your most valuable stuff. How about the best storage for that other 47%.....? Think it through. A lot depends upon whether you expect to be a specific target, versus just another sheep in a general sweep. Do you own or rent? Will you have to travel after retrieving your stash? Do you have friends/relatives you can absolutely trust, or not? There are a lot of possibilities. But you will have to be both analytical and creative. Whatever you come up with, do NOT post your best ideas.

 I rent. I first rented a safe deposit box in early 1996, when I was afraid that some of my cash reserves might be seized. I stashed a few of my handguns and pre-ban magazines there, and some pre-ban *rifle* magazines as well. In 1998 my downstairs neighbors were basically a criminal gang of home meth cookers, etc.. They really liked to play with fire and flammable liquids.

So I was living in constant fear of the place being burned to the ground with all my worldly possesssions (except for what was in the SDB) in it, as well as living in constant fear of my life. (Oh yeah, the meth gang tried to break into my apartment at least twice that I know of, while I was home. They couldn't get through the downstairs doors I'd had the foresight to reinforce. I sat on the top step with a gun while they tried, in case they got through. The landlord didn't care, and neither did the law. I was living from day to day kind of like Dustin Hoffman towards the end of _Straw Dogs_, if that gives you some idea.)

 In 1999 I moved back to my hometown, and shortly after moved to a different apartment in that town. I'm still there. I kept the safe deposit box in the other town right up until, let's see, early 2004, I think that was, when I couldn't afford the yearly rent on it anymore, and closed it. I brought all the handguns and magazines home with me. The cash reserves had been depleted. It's amazing how fast you can p!$$ away eight or ten grand when there is no longer anything coming in (or nothing beyond bare-bones subsistence/survival), and you have to live on your savings.

 Right now my choices are severely limited. If my fortunes should improve substantially, a major priority will be to to find and buy a suitable piece of real estate and get settled in there as quickly as feasible. Whatever I have left by then I'll just keep there. That'll be the end of the line. I won't be fleeing from there no matter what. I plan to stay there till I'm dead, whether from natural causes or otherwise.

 I *might* cache a few things off-premises. I haven't decide yet. I await some stroke of fate to indicate which path I should take.

 Doc
« Last Edit: February 21, 2006, 11:12:21 pm by dr_malaki »
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Bear

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Re: safe deposit boxes ?
« Reply #26 on: February 22, 2006, 02:04:39 pm »

Here's a good idea along those already suggested: put thin, flat valuables in the pages of an encyclopedia. Neither
thieves or LEOs are likely to want to steal/confiscate an encyclopedia. If you don't have one, you might find
one at a garage sale.

Bear
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byron mc

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Re: safe deposit boxes ?
« Reply #27 on: December 28, 2006, 07:19:20 pm »

I was thinking if i wanted a fairly safe place to store some computer files.
how about get a 1GB  SD flash memory card  (can be had for $10 or $15. on sale)
store your files, then cut up a cereal box for a size of cardboard that will fit in a #10 envelope.  make 2 strips of cardboard.
tape your SD card to on of the pieces of cardboard (the inner side) and place the other piece on the other side. put it in a #10 envelope addressed to your own PO Box (preferably in a nearby town).

mail it from within the same zipcode (so no machines will process it and possibly damage the SD card).
it should arrive in your PO Box within 1 day.
it will sit there fairly secure until you pick it up weeks or months later.

for extra security send a 1st class letter a few days in advance to the PO box,  then send your SD card packaged as per above from within the same zipcode, then a day later send a 1st class letter to the PO Box.
this way it is not the only letter sitting in the PO Box for months just in case Postal clerks who may not be as upstanding start snooping or steal mail.

this is for a couple reasons. no physical location in your home, or dug up earth somewhere.
have you seen the microSD cards? they are so small and you can get up to 2GB on them.  you could store those hidden at your place. hidden very well and someone would never find it.
this is also if you do not have a safety deposit box...  or a true ghost addres, but only a couple PO Boxes, one in another town which you rarely check for mail.
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Locking Lug

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Re: safe deposit boxes ?
« Reply #28 on: December 28, 2006, 10:25:24 pm »

I was wondering how safe deposit boxes might work insomuch as privacy. I know everyone in the feds will know about a bank account. And I know the bank will tell me what requirements are neccesary.

Does the IRS, FINCEN, FBI, US dept. of Treasury or any other alphabet soup know of the existence of SDB's? Is it recorded the same as bank accounts? Are the same SSN requirements for a bank account? Anybody experienced with SDB's much ?

When I attempted to open a Safe Deposit Box, I was given the same line at every bank I tried.  "A Safe Deposit Box is a type of bank account."  This was complete with a signature card, TIN, and substitute for Form W-9 requirements.  Presumably, this also means that the contents will br frozen - if not forked over to the feds - if the bank receives a simple summons.  I passed.

There are not a lot of them around, but these are interesting:

24/7 Private Vaults in Las Vegas
Ganem Jewelers in Tempe, AZ
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miker

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PO Box for 2GB data storage off site
« Reply #29 on: February 18, 2007, 12:39:25 pm »



very small physical storage idea for data


I was considering taking a digital photo at the US Post Office of my PO Box with the door open (which is a low box near the floor) and then selecting that exact color of the inside of the box with an eyedropper in an image editing program.
Create a new image and fill it with that color.
print it out.

cut out a 3 inch square of this printout.

Record my data for archival off-site onto a Transflash (MicroSD card)
15 mm × 11 mm × 0.7 mm—about the size of a fingernail—it is currently the smallest memory card format commercially available. It is about one quarter of the size of a standard SD card and holds up to 2GB of data.
see a photo next to an American quarter dollar coin:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MicroSD

use scotch tape and tape the MicroSD card underneath the 3 inch square printout of the matching interior PO Box color. placing this upon the top of the interior of the PO box. since the box is very low to the ground it is unlikely that anyone would notice this when the clerk was placing mail in the box.

Instant off-site 2GB storage fairly secure.

My original idea was to mail myself a MicroSD card in an envelope to a PO Box that i rarely use and leave it there. Another TCF forum reader wrote that the PO clears out mail after 30 days though...  so i guess if it is under-30-days-storage that would be more secure. as no one is allowed to open mail unless there is some investigation for criminal activity. Which i am not involved in.
so for monthly data backups this maybe good for critical files.
I don't trust those online internet data storage places. Even just an internet FTP hosting site. Who knows who has access to your data at their company and if they even back it up themselves and take it offsite owned by a 3rd party archival storage company?

I guess I could just hide this thumbnail-sized card at a friend's house and not tell them... very easy to hide & disguise something as small as a thumbnail and as thin as 0.7 mm .  heck it would even just be hidden underneath a piece of grey duct tape.
hmm, maybe an added piece of duct tape over the top of some other ducttape near an central AC unit or something...even better if you have to use a screwdriver to remove a cover to get to this duct tape pipe or duct...



any comments about PO Box usage for storage in this hidden manner?

-miker
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