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Author Topic: 9/4 blog - Verbal Compliance  (Read 10070 times)

Augustwest

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9/4 blog - Verbal Compliance
« on: September 04, 2003, 08:13:38 am »

Quote
And I can't quite imagine how that dulcet phrase is going to sound, echoing from hill to hill and down toward the town accompanied by volleys of gunfire.

Is there any chance there might be a .wav file of that posted somewhere, sometime? I hope so, t'would "make my day."   :P

If a handgun is all that's available, this concept makes a great deal of sense.

I'm of the mind, though, that the sound of the action cycling on yer basic Win Defender or 870 is pretty authoratative all by its lonesome.

"Speak softly," and whatnot...

Thanks, Ms. Wolfe, for some sound advice, and a good chuckle.
 
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Bill St. Clair

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9/4 blog - Verbal Compliance
« Reply #1 on: September 04, 2003, 10:07:27 pm »

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Augustwest

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9/4 blog - Verbal Compliance
« Reply #2 on: September 05, 2003, 07:53:39 am »

kerchunk, indeed  :)  
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Ian

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9/4 blog - Verbal Compliance
« Reply #3 on: September 05, 2003, 10:57:44 am »

FWIW, Augustwest, I think the verbal compliance idea was intended for use when accosted on the street or something like that, rather than when defending one's home.  
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Augustwest

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9/4 blog - Verbal Compliance
« Reply #4 on: September 05, 2003, 11:42:03 am »

Ian-

What makes you think I don't walk down the streets of my town with a 12-guage over my shoulder?  ;)

I agree completely about the intent of the idea. I just can't shut up sometimes, is all.
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Claire

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9/4 blog - Verbal Compliance
« Reply #5 on: September 05, 2003, 06:13:39 pm »

LOL. Sorry, no wav. file. Me screaming, "Back off M----------r!" is something you just have to experience live and in person.

And although I agree with you about the virtue of pump action, I just can't make the darned shotgun fit in my fanny pack.

C
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Augustwest

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9/4 blog - Verbal Compliance
« Reply #6 on: September 06, 2003, 09:29:13 am »

M'thinks a bigger pack is in order.

Now, how to make a 39" fanny pack subtle, unobtrusive, and able to fit through a car door?

hmmmmmmmm...
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Hunter

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9/4 blog - Verbal Compliance
« Reply #7 on: September 09, 2003, 10:02:56 pm »

The value of a pistol is that it is a defensive arm, small enough to always be with you when you need it. Its entire tactical function is to allow you to fight your way back to where you stupidly left your rifle (or other longarm of your choice). Verbal compliance is an important rung on the ladder of force, and I have yet to take a firearms self-defence course where it was not emphasized, for all the reasons Claire cited. Never forget that the vast majority of armed encounters are ended without a shot fired - last statistics I have seen say 13 out of 14 times. But it is still essential that the will to fight be present, and that is one small part of what verbal complaince demonstrates to your assailant.
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Carl

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9/4 blog - Verbal Compliance
« Reply #8 on: September 09, 2003, 10:15:14 pm »

Hi, Hunter. Long time, no see.

[QUOTE}Verbal compliance is an important rung on the ladder of force, and I have yet to take a firearms self-defence course where it was not emphasized, for all the reasons Claire cited.[/QUOTE]

Says the man who has clearly been paying for _quality_ training out of his own pocket (as opposed to tax-victims' pockets). During 12+ years of military and state cop experience combined, verbal compliance was _never_ an element of any gov firearms course. And "malf drills" invariably consisted of raising one's hand when one's gun stopped working.

I suspect the latter stupidity has led to an occasional hand wound in actual combat. One does as one trains. ;)  
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Claire

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9/4 blog - Verbal Compliance
« Reply #9 on: September 09, 2003, 10:43:43 pm »

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Says the man who has clearly been paying for _quality_ training out of his own pocket
Yeah, I'm with Carl. I've taken three ... maybe 3 1/2, handgun training courses over the years. Most were just local cops or competitors teaching for an afternoon, nothing formal. But one was with Michael Harries, the former Gunsite instructor. Never even heard of verbal compliance until the class as the conclave last weekend.

I'm glad to have heard of it now, though. All you have to do is bark that warning once or twice as you draw your weapon and you see the force and authority it conveys, not only in the mind of any prospective bad guy (or so I'd assume), but to your own mind and body. Makes a huge difference.

And if you're a relative newbie, you might even find that the big yell helps cut down on the flinchies and mashies. When you're barking, "BACK OFF!" it's hard to think, "Oh, is the gun going to kick?" or "Oh, is my trigger pull just right?" Somehow,the yell helps pull everything together into one smooth motion. At least, it did for me.
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Just as the flattery of friends often leads us astray, so the insults of enemies often do us good. -- St. Augustine, Confessions, Book IX, Chapter 8


When faith ceases to be a challenge to the standards of polite society, it is no longer, or has not yet become, faith. -- Donald Spoto, Reluctant Saint:  The Life of Francis of Assisi


My life is my message. -- Gandhi

Carl

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9/4 blog - Verbal Compliance
« Reply #10 on: September 10, 2003, 12:25:34 am »

Quote
And if you're a relative newbie, you might even find that the big yell helps cut down on the flinchies and mashies. When you're barking, "BACK OFF!" it's hard to think, "Oh, is the gun going to kick?" or "Oh, is my trigger pull just right?"
It can help -- in that respect -- in a training environment. And it can deter some goblins. ('Though drawing and simply tellin' 'em they may need to reconsider sometimes works -- see the tale of my Atlanta adventure.) But my experience is that in the real world, when it's time, trigger control really isn't on your mind at all...

Which is why practice (see earlier comments re:doing as you train) is essential.

If you really want to train under simulated "adrenaline rush" conditions, pop a handful of caffeine tablets before hitting the range, after staying up all night. (I hit on that combo by accident while a cop in GA.)
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Stan

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9/4 blog - Verbal Compliance
« Reply #11 on: September 10, 2003, 08:29:26 am »

I recently assisted my stepdaughter in the purchase of a Winchester "Lady Defender" 20 gauge pump action shotgun for home defense.

Our first trip to the range, her first time shooting a shotgun, and she hits the silhouette target right in the head.  I was so proud, thinking to myself, home invasion problem SOLVED.

On the rifle side of the range, there is always some exotic weaponry, AK47s, AR15s etc.  But the first time the shotgun is fired, you can see all the heads pop around the corner with a "what was THAT?" look on their faces.

You just gotta love the shotgun.  $400 can by a lot of protection.
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Hunter

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9/4 blog - Verbal Compliance
« Reply #12 on: September 10, 2003, 06:43:12 pm »

There is no question that a shotgun is the most effective point defence weapon readily available. Within their limitations and with proper training, there is simply nothing else that can match them. BUT (there is always a but), their limited range, accuracy, effective rate of fire, and the bulk and weight of ammunition do place some pretty strict limits on their tactical employment.

In most urban home defence scenarios, those drawbacks probably won't come into play. But if you live in a rural environment the chances that you will run into them rise dramatically. Out in the sticks where I live, I keep a loaded pistol, rifle, AND shotgun ready to hand. And that is only the "teeth" of a deeply layered defensive system that I'm always looking for ways to improve. Each element is there for a reason, and I try to have a plan of response worked out for every contingency I can think of. Of course, it will be something I never even considered that will crop up and bite me in the backside. <shrug> TANSTAAFL, I guess.

 
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Locke

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9/4 blog - Verbal Compliance
« Reply #13 on: September 10, 2003, 07:05:45 pm »

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And "malf drills" invariably consisted of raising one's hand when one's gun stopped working.
Heh. My first Malfunction drill with a pistol was when I shot a borrowed G19 with crossed thumbs (I'd been revolver-only until then). It bit; it jammed; TAP/RACK/BANG fixed it just fine. Though my time on that string of fire was slowed a bit.

After that, I had to get my own. :)

I need more practice!
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Claire

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9/4 blog - Verbal Compliance
« Reply #14 on: September 10, 2003, 07:21:40 pm »

Quote
Quote
And "malf drills" invariably consisted of raising one's hand when one's gun stopped working.
Heh. My first Malfunction drill with a pistol was when I shot a borrowed G19 with crossed thumbs (I'd been revolver-only until then). It bit; it jammed; TAP/RACK/BANG fixed it just fine. Though my time on that string of fire was slowed a bit.

After that, I had to get my own. :)

I need more practice!
OUUUUUUUCH!

Locke, "ketchup" of that sort we don't need to feed the Liberty Tree.

 ;)

And back to Carl for a moment, did they really (!) teach you just to raise your hand when a firearm malfunctioned? Wowee, pretty scary. And think of all our anti-gun friends who believe only people with that sort of training are fit to keep and bear arms.

Claire
« Last Edit: September 10, 2003, 07:33:38 pm by Claire »
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Just as the flattery of friends often leads us astray, so the insults of enemies often do us good. -- St. Augustine, Confessions, Book IX, Chapter 8


When faith ceases to be a challenge to the standards of polite society, it is no longer, or has not yet become, faith. -- Donald Spoto, Reluctant Saint:  The Life of Francis of Assisi


My life is my message. -- Gandhi
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