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Author Topic: 9/4 blog - Verbal Compliance  (Read 10065 times)

Hunter

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9/4 blog - Verbal Compliance
« Reply #15 on: September 10, 2003, 07:25:12 pm »

Hey, I want to encourage that sort of training.... for "them". <wink>
« Last Edit: September 10, 2003, 07:26:13 pm by Hunter »
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Carl

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9/4 blog - Verbal Compliance
« Reply #16 on: September 10, 2003, 10:13:55 pm »

behind
Quote
And back to Carl for a moment, did they really (!) teach you just to raise your hand when a firearm malfunctioned?
I kid you: The Air Farce taught 'em to grasp the m-16 with the off hand, raise the "trigger" hand, and wait for someone to come check the rifle.

At least Georgia let you keep the pistol in your primary hand. &lt;_&lt;

I like to tell folks about that when they stoutly maintain that only our well-trained cops and soldiers should be armed.

Anybody wanna hear about the officer who shot shot the building behind the firing line and pitched her shotgun down range when it scared her? :blink:  
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Sunni

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9/4 blog - Verbal Compliance
« Reply #17 on: September 11, 2003, 10:57:09 am »

Quoth the Demi-Goddess:
Quote
And if you're a relative newbie, you might even find that the big yell helps cut down on the flinchies and mashies. When you're barking, "BACK OFF!" it's hard to think, "Oh, is the gun going to kick?" or "Oh, is my trigger pull just right?" Somehow,the yell helps pull everything together into one smooth motion. At least, it did for me.
I agree. Last year I shot our gun guru's handgun course for the first time, with a mini-Glock I'd not fired before. Despite it being rather hard to control for me, and my frustration at not getting more lead through paper, I know I smoothed out a lot of problems with my technique.
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Jac

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9/4 blog - Verbal Compliance
« Reply #18 on: September 11, 2003, 02:39:12 pm »

Augustwest said:
Quote
M'thinks a bigger pack is in order.

Now, how to make a 39" fanny pack subtle, unobtrusive, and able to fit through a car door?

hmmmmmmmm...
Correction, a 16.5" fanny pack. :D

Serbu Super Shorty

Good luck tryin' to control the bloody thing! :ph34r: Of course, they are NFAized, so it's not like you can get one anyway... but it's a nice fantasy.

(Thanks to Bill's blog for the link)
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I have never regretted that I chose to "take the red pill." But there are days, just rarely, when the truth is so ugly, so brutal, so unmerciful, so relentless, that even if I wouldn't rip the truth from the wall socket and hurl it out the window to crash on the sidewalk below, I wouldn't mind if it featured a snooze button so we could savor just a few more moments in slumbered pretension and warm, fuzzy lies pulled snugly up over our heads.
--PSM

Bill St. Clair

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9/4 blog - Verbal Compliance
« Reply #19 on: September 11, 2003, 02:59:47 pm »

Oohhh! Thanx for the reminder of the Serbu Super Shorty. I drool whenever I look at that picture. One day I won't be able to stand it any more and I'll make my very own whippet (double-barreled shotgun cut short in the barrel and the stock), legal or not.
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"The state can only survive as long as a majority is programmed to believe that theft isn't wrong if it's called taxation or asset forfeiture or eminent domain, that assault and kidnapping isn't wrong if it's called arrest, that mass murder isn't wrong if it's called war." -- Bill St. Clair

"Separation of Earth and state!" -- Bill St. Clair

Augustwest

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9/4 blog - Verbal Compliance
« Reply #20 on: September 11, 2003, 03:27:23 pm »

m'thinks there's some folks here who don't love their wrists so much  ;)

There's a class III dealer in my town who sells those, or something very much like them, and every time I see them, all I can think is, "ouch."

I'm not interested in getting anymore "papered" than I already am, and like my wrists, so I doubt I'll be partaking, but I believe the NFA tax on those would only be $5.00.
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Bill St. Clair

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9/4 blog - Verbal Compliance
« Reply #21 on: September 11, 2003, 04:43:58 pm »

I own an 18" barrel Winchester 1300 pistol grip 12-gauge that I keep under my bed at night. I have fired 12-pellet 00-buck loads out of it (Remington's "Bear Load") on numerous occasions. I added a front pistol grip so that it wouldn't rise out of my front hand when fired. I've discovered that as long as I keep my front elbow locked and hold the front grip firmly, I do not get hurt when I fire even this stout a load. One ounce slugs are easy.

I'm 5'11" and weight over 240 pounds, so if you're smaller your mileage may vary
« Last Edit: September 11, 2003, 07:52:30 pm by Bill St. Clair »
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"The state can only survive as long as a majority is programmed to believe that theft isn't wrong if it's called taxation or asset forfeiture or eminent domain, that assault and kidnapping isn't wrong if it's called arrest, that mass murder isn't wrong if it's called war." -- Bill St. Clair

"Separation of Earth and state!" -- Bill St. Clair

Jac

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9/4 blog - Verbal Compliance
« Reply #22 on: September 11, 2003, 07:19:10 pm »

I'm actually pretty fond of my wrists... I just like things that go BOOM better. B)

And I'm with you, Bill. Legal or not, I want a little cut-down shotgun. Very fun! BTW, you're welcome for the reminder. :D

--Jac



P.S.  Yes, the NFA tax is only 5 dolla, since it's an AOW.
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I have never regretted that I chose to "take the red pill." But there are days, just rarely, when the truth is so ugly, so brutal, so unmerciful, so relentless, that even if I wouldn't rip the truth from the wall socket and hurl it out the window to crash on the sidewalk below, I wouldn't mind if it featured a snooze button so we could savor just a few more moments in slumbered pretension and warm, fuzzy lies pulled snugly up over our heads.
--PSM

Augustwest

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9/4 blog - Verbal Compliance
« Reply #23 on: September 12, 2003, 08:11:36 am »

I'm delicate.  :D

Bill, you've got a couple inches in height, and about 90 lbs on me.

In the realm of great minds thinkin' alike, I too trust hearth and home to a Win 1300 Defender. With the stock stock on it though.

Hmmmmm, if I bought shares in whichever company made that shoulder thing on my shotgun, would I own stock stock stock?

And if I used it to guard a herd?

Nevermind...
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Bear

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9/4 blog - Verbal Compliance
« Reply #24 on: September 29, 2003, 07:11:17 pm »

About verbal compliance:

Anyone consider yelling whatever it is the cops are likely to yell (without the word 'police') just to spread confusion?
If the cops or the intended perps pause to consider if you're and undercover cop (without actually having said so), it could
buy you a few important moments.

What d'ya think?

Bear
 
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Hasher

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9/4 blog - Verbal Compliance
« Reply #25 on: October 11, 2003, 10:38:52 pm »

Actually Verbal compliance is a huge factor. Ayoob preaches it, Clint Smith at Thunder Ranch and his team preach it, John Farnham preaches and teaches it as well.

Believe me I would rather try verbal compliance before I pull the trigger (assuming that there is a need for ti and it is not quite time to start shooting yet) than spend upwards of $50k defending  myself in court when I might have been able to stop the fight before it really got started.

Whoever said the hand gun is for fighting your way back to the long gun you follishly left behind/put down is absolutly correct. The hand gun can be readily carried with you every where and is handy and convienent. If I knew I were goign to be in a gun fight my first chouce would be to not be there. my second choice would be a long gun of some sort like and AR 15 or my Benelli, and a bunch of heavily arrmed friends. The handgun is a poor fight stopper at best no matter what the caliber.

Now on to my pet peve.

Whoever thinks that the sound of your shotgun being racked is going to solve the problem is sadly mistaken. First of all the one time you are going to need to take an immediate shot is when you have the shotgun in this condition and subscribe to this theory. You are not going to get a time out and say" Hold on a  sec Mr. Baddie I need to load this before I shoot you".

Second if you do rack the gun and expect it to freeze a hardened criminal in his place, you are instead telling him that you just brought an unloaded firearm to a gunfight. I would also be wondering if you really have a loaded gun at that point or are just bluffing at hta tpoint.

The proper proceduere IMHO is to take up an "Ensconced Defender" position, give him one chance with verbal compliance, and then if he moves toward where you are to begin shooting till the threat is stopped. This assumes a home scenario.

For a street scenario I would be yelling as I drew and would then procede as indicated by his response.

BTW you can always spot the Thunder Ranch grads at the other schools. On the first string of the first relay they are the ones who scream at the top of thier lungs "DON"T MOVE!!!! DROP YOUR WEAPON!!!!"

Hasher
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Carl

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9/4 blog - Verbal Compliance
« Reply #26 on: October 11, 2003, 10:49:41 pm »

Quote
Second if you do rack the gun and expect it to freeze a hardened criminal in his place, you are instead telling him that you just brought an unloaded firearm to a gunfight. I would also be wondering if you really have a loaded gun at that point or are just bluffing at hta tpoint.
_Expect_? No, think it's worth a try? Yes.

On just one occasion, I had three would-be muggers take off running simply because I put my hand on my pistol.

Just out of curiosity, have you ever really been on the potential receiving end of a weapon you just heard charged in a combat environment? If you ever hear _me_ rack my gun before pointing it at you, feeel suicidally free to assume I've brought "an unloaded firearm to a gunfight."
 ;)  
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Hasher

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« Reply #27 on: October 11, 2003, 11:19:45 pm »

Actually yes I have been. It was at a hotel we were at for an LFI class and my buddy inside the room was not sure who was at the door (me). I heard him drop the slide on an auto pistol and immediatly moved ot cover. If I was a BG and heard that I would either start running or start shooting. Either way I never want an empty gun in my hands in any kind of situation. But I guess it is personal opinon ( as well as that of a lot of the nations top instructors).

 
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Carl

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« Reply #28 on: October 12, 2003, 12:17:18 pm »

Quote
Either way I never want an empty gun in my hands in any kind of situation. But I guess it is personal opinon ( as well as that of a lot of the nations top instructors).
You're still losing me on this "empty gun" thing. Why would you  assume that hearing a weapon charged means it is unloaded?

Side note: What was your friend doing that made it necessary to draw simply because someone knocked on his door?
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Chris

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9/4 blog - Verbal Compliance
« Reply #29 on: October 12, 2003, 03:20:52 pm »

I've always considered a weapon without a round in the chamber to be unloaded, regardless of the condition of the magazine.  

As for chambering the ol' pump gun to ward off a threat, IMO it's not such a great idea.  If you chamber a round and the bad guy hears it, he might decide to run away.  Or, he might just decide to go Iraqi Offhand*, and you get tagged with a lucky slug.  Better not to the the BG know that you're there.

If you wait until you can see the BG to rack your gun, well, good luck.  For one thing, that implies that you plan on clearing your domicile yourself.  I wouldn't clear my house solo, and I sure as hell wouldn't do it with a gun that ain't ready to shoot.  If the BG gets the drop on you, you'll need that round in the chamber (and a lot of luck.)

Just me, but my home defense plan involves setting up at a choke point (top of the stairs) and waiting for the goblins to come to me.  YMMV.

- Chris

* - Iraqi Offhand is a well known, poorly regarded CQB technique that involves shooting blindly through walls, floors, etc. in the direction of a suspected threat.  As bad an idea as this sounds, it has worked before in the past.  

 
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