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Author Topic: Pilots license in U.S. w/out SSN?  (Read 2589 times)

freebird

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Pilots license in U.S. w/out SSN?
« on: May 24, 2006, 02:53:27 pm »

I am interested in getting my private pilots license but I heard this requires an SSN.  Since I have made the decision to stop using the dreaded Slave Surveillance Number, does anyone know if I can still obtain a license without one? 

I know it's pretty dang near impossible to get a Drivers License these days w/out an SSN, was wondering if Pilots Licenses are any different. 

Also, could getting my license in another country that is recognized by the US be a possible workaround?

-FB
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velojym

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Re: Pilots license in U.S. w/out SSN?
« Reply #1 on: May 24, 2006, 05:18:32 pm »

Interestingly enough, I remember a fellow who fixed up an old Cessna 150 and flew it. Taught himself to fly in it (mostly, I think there was someone else who helped him with the repair and gave him some pointers, but wouldn't 'fess up... licensed pilot didn't want word getting out in case dude #1 got caught)
The paint job wasn't great, but so far as I know, he never crashed and never got caught. This has been a couple decades almost, but I got a big kick outta the fact that someone could just up and FLY without licking anyone's toes.
He kept the plane by his house in the country, an area nobody really wanted to live (not sure exactly why, but it was pretty desolate), and fueled it from his old beat up Chevy Luv 5 gallon cans in the back of the little truck. Again, I don't know whether he was burning 100LL or mogas.
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freebird

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Re: Pilots license in U.S. w/out SSN?
« Reply #2 on: May 24, 2006, 11:20:36 pm »

You will need to give your SSN to get a PL. it's the Feds and it's their rules

not that I would say to do anything illegal but if you don't plan to fly into a control airport then just fly.

If that is true, then that is very dissappointing news.  <sign> just another way for the gubmint to steal away our freedom to enjoy life.   I would like to be able to fly into controlled airports, North Vegas in particular.

I wonder if I could get any mileage out of putting "religious objection" in lieu of the SSN field, or have them create a bogus # for me. 

With regards to flying w/out an FAA issued license (I am assuming that the FAA controls the pilots licensing program in the US) I would imagine that most companies and flying clubs would want to see a valid pilots license before I could take on their planes up in the air.

I guess that means I would have to build my own plane first?  Cool!
« Last Edit: May 24, 2006, 11:22:21 pm by freebird »
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velojym

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Re: Pilots license in U.S. w/out SSN?
« Reply #3 on: May 25, 2006, 07:31:43 am »

Oh yeah. I would go as far as saying that all companies and legal aircraft owners will want your credentials before letting you fly their planes, or have a licensed pilot accompany you skyward.
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yorick

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Re: Pilots license in U.S. w/out SSN?
« Reply #4 on: May 25, 2006, 01:01:35 pm »

I am a licensed pilot and the 'official' document is just a piece of regular paper with regular type - so would be very easy to 'roll your own' as it were.

Any flying club or aircraft rental operation will require a checkout ride - anywhere from .5 to 2 hours with thier designated instructor/head pilot - if you demonstrate proficiency the paperwork gets only a cusory glance - if you cannot demonstrate proficiency no amount of paperwork or official documents will get you into thier aircraft solo.

"Controlled' airports or no - the only time I have ever been asked for my liscnece when flying my own plane was when I flew into Chicago shortly after 9/11 - they had security checking ID and lisnces on every pilot who came through the FBO.

I've flown in and out of fairly large towered airports (Rapid City, SD - St Louis, MO - St Paul, MN, Des Moines, IA) and never been questioned, stopped or checked.  It's the big internationals (CHI, LAX, DEN, MSP) where you can get some grief - and just from a practical matter it sucks flying a small plane into those places anyway.

I know older pilots who own thier own aircraft who haven't been 'legal' in decades - the FAA requires biannual testing and medical checks and many crusty old guys who learned to fly before I was born 'just do it' and don't worry about the FAA.

Assuming you fly your own plane (and don't need to insure it) there really isn't anything the FAA or anyone else can do to prevent you from just flying.  The only 'sanction' the FAA has is revokation of your license   :ph34r: :rolleyes: ^_^  and the local constabulary has no authority over pilots & aircraft.   I recall a story in the news a few years back where a guy was regularily flying w/o a lisence and the local PD somehow found out and wanted to stop him and discovered they couldn't - they then called in the FAA who couldn't do anything either b/c the guy had no valid lisence for them to revoke - I think they only thing that came of it was the the local municipal airport told the guy he couldn't land there anymore  - of course the newspaper reported it with breathless horror - that someone could simply ignore the system & 'authorities' if they owned thier own plane and flew it off private property    :laugh: :mellow:
« Last Edit: May 25, 2006, 01:13:05 pm by yorick »
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freebird

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Re: Pilots license in U.S. w/out SSN?
« Reply #5 on: May 25, 2006, 04:55:12 pm »

LOL, great story yorick about the guy flying regularly w/out a license. 

The biggest hurdle I see for now is how to get instruction w/out handing over the SSN.  Once I become comptetent enough to fly safely, I could focus my energies on getting my own place constructed.   

I am also curious to know how much value you pilots put on ultralight flying experience.   Btw, I've already got 3-4 flights of soaring experience, and seemed to pick up the basics of flight pretty quick according to the instructor.  I can even keep the glider in proper tow position 90% of the ride up.  My last landing was almost completely unassisted (control stick wise, but not verbally) too.  </end bragging>

Velo also told me about the sport pilot option, so I will check that out too.

FB
« Last Edit: May 25, 2006, 05:04:47 pm by freebird »
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freebird

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Re: Pilots license in U.S. w/out SSN?
« Reply #6 on: May 26, 2006, 01:42:10 pm »

Well to be honest, I already started training on a glider several years ago, and I know that I wrote that despicable number the gubmint assigned me down in the pilots log book.  I'm not sure if I put it on any other paperwork.   If they already have it, and I'm in some FAA database, then perhaps I should not worry about it for now.   I just want to avoid using it at all going forwards into the future.
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yorick

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Re: Pilots license in U.S. w/out SSN?
« Reply #7 on: May 26, 2006, 03:03:35 pm »

hang out at a rural airport.

get to know the old crusty pilots.  listen to thier stories.  help them move & wash thier planes.  be respectful & polite & listen more than you talk.

you will eventually be invited to fly with them. 

many can teach you more than you'll ever learn from a newly minted goobermint approved instructor.

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freebird

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Re: Pilots license in U.S. w/out SSN?
« Reply #8 on: May 26, 2006, 09:02:54 pm »

Can anyone recommend a good website where I could map out some rural airports that are within a reasonable drive in the Phoenix metro area? 

Also, forgive me if this sounds like a dumb question, but how exactly does one go about "hanging out" at a rural airport??  Do I just grab a six pack and pull up a lawn chair on the tarmac, and if anyone asks, tell them something like "I like to watch the planes takeoff and land?"    I'm an antsy person by nature, so I'll be needing something to do.  Maybe I could bring a sketch pad and pretend like I'm drawing airport scenes.    Somebody help me out here...

FB
« Last Edit: May 31, 2006, 11:49:11 am by freebird »
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velojym

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Re: Pilots license in U.S. w/out SSN?
« Reply #9 on: May 27, 2006, 08:25:05 am »

If you see someone show up in something interesting (read: old), ask 'em about it.
Most of the time, in my experience, the floodgates will open.
Then, you may even get a ride out of the deal, and if he(or she) is a rated instructor, maybe even a little
time in the logbook. Oh yeah. Bring your logbook.
I've picked up a few hours just by being in the right place at the right time, and a few more were maintenance flights after
I worked on a plane. In the latter case, the instructor who takes the plane up after an engine swap will be quite happy to have
the mechanic along. I kept my logbook in my toolbox.
If the airfield has a restaurant, I'll kill a morning in a booth overlooking the tarmac, reading manuals and sucking down iced tea.
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Bear

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Re: Pilots license in U.S. w/out SSN?
« Reply #10 on: May 29, 2006, 11:54:18 pm »

Quote
Can anyone recommend a good website where I could map out some rural airports that are within a reasonable drive in the Phoenix metro area?

Freebird,

Another thing I you might do when you go to the airport, is buy an aeronautical sectional chart (map) for the local area. They used to be
about $7 each, and are good for 6 months. You might even get a 'stale' one for free if you tell the counter clerk that you are
interested in learning how to fly, and just want a chart to learn from.

When you open the sectional, don't freak out. You don't need to know all of the info it's telling you, but it gives  you a head's  up
about what is going on (airspace wise)  in your area.

Also, ask them if they have NOTAMs (Notice To Airmen) posted where you can see them. These are public
announcemens - sometimes on very short notice - of important things you should know about when you fly. Just scan them and
get the gist of what they tell you. Nowadays it's a good idea to get into the habit of checking them when you get to the airport to
go flying.

Blue skies!

Bear

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Jeffersoniantoo

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Re: Pilots license in U.S. w/out SSN?
« Reply #11 on: May 30, 2006, 08:12:11 am »

You can also download sectional :angel11:s from here:

http://aviationtoolbox.org/raw_data/FAA/sectionals/current/

The sectionals come in two parts, north and south, which represent the front and back of the standard sectional.

It is in a tif format, and they are very large (40-60 Mg, per side), so don't try this without a broadband connection.  For a free reader that can seamlessly attach the edges (front and back) and of multiple charts go here:

http://www.pcigeomatics.com/products/freeview.html

Have fun!     :angel11:
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Power Privacy

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Re: Pilots license in U.S. w/out SSN?
« Reply #12 on: June 04, 2006, 01:47:54 am »

When I received my pilot's licence, they asked for my SSN in order to "key" the license to my SSN, but it wasn't mandatory. I looked at the requirements carefully at the time, and remember this for a fact. It was easier for the FAA to identify me as a pilot by a SSN, but I distinctly remember I wasn't required to surrender the info. If I didn't, they would have issued some arbitrary number for my pilot's license, as I was told. Because I chose to surrender my SSN, my pilot's license was issued in THAT number.

This was in 1997-ish, however, and things may have changed post-Sept. 2001. Your mileage my vary.
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freebird

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Re: Pilots license in U.S. w/out SSN?
« Reply #13 on: June 04, 2006, 11:02:17 am »

When I received my pilot's licence, they asked for my SSN in order to "key" the license to my SSN, but it wasn't mandatory. I looked at the requirements carefully at the time, and remember this for a fact. It was easier for the FAA to identify me as a pilot by a SSN, but I distinctly remember I wasn't required to surrender the info. If I didn't, they would have issued some arbitrary number for my pilot's license, as I was told. Because I chose to surrender my SSN, my pilot's license was issued in THAT number.

This was in 1997-ish, however, and things may have changed post-Sept. 2001. Your mileage my vary.

Interesting, thanks for sharing PP, this is encouraging info.

Also a gentle reminder:  It's not your SSN...that is the government's number.   Important when trying to maintain a "mentally free" mindset.  ;)
« Last Edit: June 04, 2006, 01:21:08 pm by freebird »
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UH1

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Re: Pilots license in U.S. w/out SSN?
« Reply #14 on: June 04, 2006, 03:24:07 pm »

Quote
I am a licensed pilot and the 'official' document is just a piece of regular paper with regular type - so would be very easy to 'roll your own' as it were.

The new flying certificates are printed on plastic like a credit card and would be a little more difficult to 'roll'.

Quote
Because I chose to surrender my SSN, my pilot's license was issued in THAT number.

That is what I have seen as well.  I wouldn't be surprised if they tracked down your social and assign you that 'certificate number' even if you didn't initially provide it.
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