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Author Topic: No information, no services rendered!  (Read 5336 times)

suijurisfreeman

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« on: April 08, 2004, 03:06:57 pm »

Last week when I was in Kentucky my daughter made an appointment for me with a oral surgeon here in Elkhart, I need to get a tooth removed.  Today I stopped by and confirmed my suspicions.  I informed the office staff that I wouldn't be filling out any of their medical forms prior to getting my tooth removed.  They all seemed baffled as to why I wouldn't give the information, but like I told them with my privacy policy they can't give out information they don't have.  Now that's what I call privacy protection.  Oh well, I wonder if all doctor's have this policy?  I guess this one is more interested in gathering information than treating a patient.  :unsure:
« Last Edit: April 11, 2004, 07:59:15 am by suijurisfreeman »
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rockchucker

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« Reply #1 on: April 08, 2004, 04:37:08 pm »

I haven't encountered that. Maybe I've been lucky. Of course, one factor could be the "I'll be paying for this today" argument. It's worked for me so far.

I'm reminded of something I saw on John Caldara's weekly TV show, Independent Thinking. It's called SimpleCare. The basic idea is that doctors ditch dealing with the insurance system, and bill patients directly -- aiming for being paid when service is rendered, and not having to bill at all. This removes an enormous overhead burden from the cost of operating a medical practice, and can actually result in patient costs which are lower than the negotiated fees a doc gets with the insurance groups.

The other thing is that your SSN is the key for data uploads to the Medical Information Bureau, not that that's news to anyone here.

But has everyone heard about this?

Having a good medical history can be very important for getting proper care. But how to protect privacy while still being able to provide it?  
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suijurisfreeman

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« Reply #2 on: April 08, 2004, 04:59:33 pm »

The first thing my daughter informed them of was the fact that I would be paying cash for services rendered.  I told them today that I would verbally answer questions as to what I might be allergic to, etc., but nothing else.  I don't participate in the fraud known as Social Security so I don't use a SSN.  I haven't had an address since 1994, so I can't provide that information.  As far as family medical history goes, it's none of their damn business, I just want one tooth removed.  The way I see it, I'll protect my privacy by limiting any medical information given out - they can't disclose to any third parties what they don't know.  I can just see myself in a medical emergency situtation, sorry Mr. Johnson we can't do anything to treat you until you answer all our questions.  But I've got the cash to pay you for services rendered, we don't want your cash, we really aren't interested in treating your condition, what we really want is information!  I wonder if they called Homeland Security officials, after all I didn't have any ID or SSN?
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Bear

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« Reply #3 on: April 08, 2004, 05:30:58 pm »

I talked to the people in my dentist's office about medical privacy, etc.. They're only  concern about the info
is with insurance. If you don't use medical insurance, they are happy not to collect the info.

Bear
 
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Docliberty

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« Reply #4 on: April 08, 2004, 06:56:20 pm »

Pardon me a moment while I get my doctor's hat set firmly and squarely upon my head.

There.

Now as regards medical information, *ain't nuthin' simple enny more!*  Sui, the doctor truly does need a medical history to ensure that he does not miss anything and inadvertantly put you or himself at risk.  Beyond that, you are quite right to be concerned about the information ending up in one or several government databases.  HIPPA grants all government agencies access to that information at their discression without your knowledge or consent.  To protect yourself, take one of these with you and insist that they add it to your file.

The simple truth is that most doctors are just trying to stay compliant with new fedgov regulations that bite them with fines up to $250K.  Per violation.  Those that are aware of the provisions that allow government snooping are not happy about them.  The non-disclosure form gives them a way to legally tell the fedgov they ain't gonna play.

I understand your desire to maintain your privacy.  You have a right to not answer their questions and they have a right to not provide you with service when they feel that they do not have enough information to do the job correctly and safely.  A truly Libertarian transaction.
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Junker

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« Reply #5 on: April 09, 2004, 05:22:08 am »

Quote
You have a right to not answer their questions and they have a right to not provide you with service when they feel that they do not have enough information to do the job correctly and safely.  A truly Libertarian transaction.
Except all doctorin' is licensed and contolled by the state. Ya' can't much find any surgery or medicines outside their monopoly. And if you do, you are threatened with physical violence, jail, and scam doctorin' or scam medicines. And anyone attempting to provide such service outside the monopoly is exposed the same way. And much doctorin' is easy but ya' can't even legally buy the equipment any more. And even if you do it to yourself only, you can still be jailed for practicing without a state license. Read the self- or family-help medical books from 1900 or so. According to most of the medical monopoly, it's jes' too complicated for the laity. Ho-ho.

That's not to be a poke at Docliberty, but it is the current set-up.
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Docliberty

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« Reply #6 on: April 09, 2004, 08:27:38 am »

Quote
That's not to be a poke at Docliberty, but it is the current set-up.

Didn't even feel a tickle much less a poke.

You're right Junker and you don't even know the half of it.  When a physician graduates from school, he has to take a national board exam.  The contents of this exam dictates to some degree what the schools are required to teach.  Then each state decides whether or not to accept the national exam or give one of their own.  In the case of chiropractors, the national exam has five parts and each state requires some parts and does not accept other parts.  A situation designed to make you cross-eyed with frustration.

Once you have jumped through the appropriate hoops and and obtained your state license, you now have to maintain your state license.  This requires certain amounts and types of continuing education which vary by state and of course a nice little fee to the state.

The rational to all of this is of course that the public need protection from unscrupulous charlatans.  To a certain degree, this is true.  The average person has to have the knowledge and ability to judge the competency of a physician or they have to have some system that they can trust to have sorted it all out for them.  I would be interested to know everyone's thoughts on an alternative to current state run system.
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"I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, and I won't be laid a hand on.  I don't do these things to other people and I require the same from them."  Marion Morrison

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"Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats." H. L. Mencken

Junker

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« Reply #7 on: April 09, 2004, 09:20:43 am »

> Didn't even feel a tickle much less a poke.

Thank you, Doc. Some folks be a right bit touchy.

> I would be interested to know everyone's thoughts on an alternative to current state run system.

Sure, though mine might not help much. No system. Open to any person, any theory, any action, etc. No regulation at all. Reputation is sufficient to keep the good and ignore the bad. If a person wants extra voodoo dolls or church candles, that's their call and expense. IMO.

 
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Dull'Hawk

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« Reply #8 on: April 09, 2004, 10:46:07 am »

What about private, competing, licensing groups?  Depending on which groups sanction a doctor's work, the patient could decide which doctor to use.  There could be groups for voodoo docs, chiropractors, urologists, whatever.  If the doctors working under a particular groups license show incompetence, people would steer away from them.  

Kent

 
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Bear

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« Reply #9 on: April 09, 2004, 12:11:41 pm »

I  remember reading somewhere that half of all malpractice  suites involve an extremely small percentage
of doctors. Even given that some specialties are more suit-prone than others, it makes me think that there
may be something in these doctors not being up to snuff.

As far as I can tell from the outside of the profession, the licensing and professional groups have not been
effective in removing these  guys from practice. If this small number of incompetant doctors is allowed to
continue their practice, then what's the point (from  the consumer's point of view) of all of this licensing?

Bear
 
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unstructuredreality

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« Reply #10 on: April 09, 2004, 01:41:22 pm »

I've never had a problem either.  If one doctor refuses, chances are there is a better doctor not too far away who will welcome your cash with smiles.  Hell in that situation, unless your concerned the doctor won't have access to your records, you can give them a "secondary name"- your pen name.  I keep copies of records to share only with the doctor should he/she need to know about history. Do that and noone knows, not even the big dataming projects coming online.  I've even had surgery in similar ways.  You may run into problems if you need scheduled drugs for your pain depending on state law.  Use your real name for the "good" checkups and your "pen name" for those questionable ones. :)  As long as you do not commit fraud you are entitled to use any name you wish.

Good Day

 
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unstructuredreality

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« Reply #11 on: April 09, 2004, 01:53:47 pm »

rockchucker said:  "But how to protect privacy while still being able to provide it?"

A good rule of thumb is to never give your legal name unless jail or criminal proceedings can be the result of not doing so.  Build and maintain an alternate, but perfectly legal, alternate name for situations like avoiding databases.  If I want to be known as "mr. rock and roll" then I am known as "mr. rock and roll".   A second rule is that if you do choose to provide the "legal" name given to you by the state, don't couple it with your address, phone number, or other identifiable info.  It's not too hard just takes a little shift in course.


 
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enemyofthestate

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« Reply #12 on: April 10, 2004, 10:15:49 pm »

Quote
I would be interested to know everyone's thoughts on an alternative to current state run system.
Engineering and technical societies have been doing this for decades.  Certification such as EIT, PE, ASNT, etc have been, to some extent, co-opted by the state but they started out as private certifications.   Almost any profession has standards groups that could provide trainin recommendations and certification.    Models exist for private, workable certification and "licensing" in any profession.
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mantispid

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« Reply #13 on: April 10, 2004, 11:24:10 pm »

Quote
Engineering and technical societies have been doing this for decades.  Certification such as EIT, PE, ASNT, etc have been, to some extent, co-opted by the state but they started out as private certifications.   Almost any profession has standards groups that could provide trainin recommendations and certification.    Models exist for private, workable certification and "licensing" in any profession.
Exactly right.  Private certifications are the way to go.  Anyone could practice medicine, but you'd be a fool to go to a doctor that doesn't have a few certifications under his belt.  Of course, a doc wouldn't have to have certifications for everything... maybe he was just an army field medic and has enough skill to properly set fractures, deal with lacerations, etc.  In such a case, you wouldn't need someone who spent 10 years in school.  You could go to a corner clinic, buy the fracture-setting service from the old army doc (who happens to have decent certs for setting fractures) for $20, and then go about your life.

As it is now, you'd have to go to the hospital, see the bill after you've been treated, and then pay all sorts of pricey fees... for the doctor.. hospital.. examination room time.. etc. etc.

I can't even begin to emphasize how this would seriously crash the high prices of health care.
« Last Edit: April 10, 2004, 11:24:55 pm by mantispid »
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« Reply #14 on: April 11, 2004, 03:31:12 am »

Nothing private can ever convince myself to offer any thing of a personal nature to them.  Relationships, business or other wise are built on trust.  They have shown me none.  No trust, no business. Simple as that.

Peace
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